Evidence of nuclear explosion in ancient India ?

Time and again, I have been pestered with this link, as a definite proof of some nuclear explosion in ancient India. Well, as dumb as it may sound, some people actually believe this kind of mindless story, without even batting an eyelid (Not that batting an eyelid is necessary in the process of believing).

Nuclear explosionThe crux of the matter is that, some people are claiming that the Indians, during the time of the Indus Valley Civilization (3000-1500 BCE), had nuclear weapons, and proof of the fact is in the radioactive skeletal remains at Mohenjo-Daro itself. Apparently, a reference to an incidence in The Mahabharata, an ancient Indian text, looks too similar to be anything else, other than a nuclear explosion. Since it is impossible to imagine such events with such vividness, it thus automatically transpires that the narration was nothing but an eyewitness account of a nuclear explosion.

Apparently some other tangible proofs of ancient nuclear India exist too. Remains at Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa are, we are given to believe, highly radioactive. Radioactivity, of such high proportion, as has been allegedly recorded at the archeological sites, can’t come into existence right out of the blue. Coupled with the fact that these two civilizations came to an abrupt end, which in it self is a mystery, the nuclear explosion, apparently, fits quite snuggly.

Lets examine, if there is any evidence to the above conclusions.

What is the source ?

Site after site, relentlessly narrate the above story, basically copy/pasting each other, but fail to give any reference to original news article. There is no mention of a press release, or something similar, by the Government of India or Pakistan or Britain. This huge event i.e. unearthing of such a radioactive skeleton, which has the potential of turning our history book right on its head, is not even mentioned in any archeological web sites like ASI, or Mohenjodaro.net or Harappa.com, or even the myriad Hindu propaganda web sites. (Some of these Hindu apologist sites do claim that the vedic India was nuclear, but, thankfully, do not point at the ruins of Indus Valley civilization as evidence. They have their own reasons, of course.)

Unless, for some unknown reason, there is a huge conspiracy to cover up, this story is absolutely bunk and that too, a sloppy one.

The Fountainhead :

The original link does not give any indication of its source. A quick googling, however, revealed the source. One such source is Rense.com.

This file shared with KeelyNet courtesy of Bryant Stavely.
Excerpt from the World Island Review, January 1992

Apparently, the story was broken to the world by World Island Review and was fist referenced by KeelyNet, in January 1992. Strangely the story is no longer available on KeelyNet. Also, the World Island Review, in all likelihood is fake.

Now let me get this straight. No legitimate archaeological site, whether Government owned or privately run, mentions anything about this incidence and the only magazine or site, which claims to be the source, does not even exist.

It has already begun to stink. But wait, there is more.

Skeletal Remains :

When excavations of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro reached the street level, they discovered skeletons scattered about the cities, many holding hands and sprawling in the streets as if some instant, horrible doom had taken place. People were just lying, unburied, in the streets of the city.

A casual reading will give the impression, that the sites at Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa were littered with skeletons and these lay unburied in such manner, that would suggest of an instant annihilation of an entire city.

Why did the bodies not decay or get eaten by wild animals? Furthermore, there is no apparent cause of a physically violent death.

Again, a casual reading will give the impression, that the “bodies” that were found, did not decay as one would normally expect to, and that the deaths were due to some physical violence, the cause of which is mysterious.

The total number of skeletons found at the main site of Mohenjo-Daro, during the initial archeological digging during 1922-1931, was, just 37. Let me quote Prof. G.F.Dales from his “The Mythical Massacre at Mohenjo-Daro“. (He was of course debunking the myth of Aryan invasion, much to the joy of Hindu apologists).

Nine years of extensive excavations at Mohenjo-daro (1922-31) – a city of three miles in circuit – yielded the total of some 37 skeletons, or parts thereof, that can be attributed with some certainty to the period of the Indus civilizations. Some of these were found in contorted positions and that suggest anything but orderly burials. Many are either disarticulated or incomplete….Where are the burned fortresses, the arrow heads, weapons, pieces of armor, the smashed chariots and bodies of the invaders and defenders? Despite the extensive excavations at the largest Harappan sites, there is not a single bit of evidence that can be brought forth as unconditional proof of an armed conquest and the destruction on the supposed scale of the Aryan Invasion.

Later excavation unearthed more skeletal remains in other Indus valley ruins like Harappa, Dholavira, Lothal etc., which numbered, more than 300. [I am not sure of the exact number.]

It is an absolute lie that bodies littered the streets of these ruins. There isn’t a shred of evidence of an instantaneous mass death, as evidenced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Some of these skeletons were actually buried at different ground level, pointing to different periods of time. In case of an instantaneous death, it is impossible to happen. There isn’t any evidence of any major war or invasion.

Frankly, I could not make any head or tail of that 2nd quote. Is it at all possible, to find any “body”, as in corpse, in any form, other than as decayed skeleton, after over a couple of thousand years ? In fact the skeletal remains, did decay, and is one reason why only some 300 odd skeletons were recovered, where as the cities are believed to have accommodated close to a million people during their heyday. [The left image below is of a Mohenjo-daro man and to the right is a female.]
Male skeletonFemale skeleton

Nuclear Explosion ?

Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that “Indian sacred writings” are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I will talk about “historian” Kisari Mohan Ganguli a little later. But first about this nuclear explosion. Well, if it indeed was a nuclear explosion, then it must be of a kind, that we don’t of know yet.
The great bath at Mohenjo-daro The college buildings at Mohenjo-daro
Here’s how Mohenjo-Daro looks today after a couple of thousand years after the alleged explosion and all the while remaining covered with sand and soil in a very dry area of the globe. [Image to the left is the great bath at Mohenjo-daro and to the right is the college buildings]

Hiroshima after nuclear explosion

Hiroshima after nuclear explosion

The image to the left is how Hiroshima looked, after the actual explosion. Notice the difference. In case of the archeological remains of Mohenjo-Daro, the city is remarkably intact, except of course corrosion, and rampant vandalism. Hiroshima on the other hand is practically leveled to the ground. True, that more than half of Hiroshima was made of wood, nevertheless, is it possible for primitive brick structures to remain erect, the way it is found in Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa, after a nuclear blast ? The other possibility is that the bomb used, killed only biological things and left the infrastructure intact. But that’s the stuff that science fiction is made up of.

Besides, when there was no major battle, or conflict, or invasion – at least there is no archeological proof of it – why would anybody even detonate a nuclear warhead, assuming that this detonation actually happened. Absence of proof of conflict, itself, removes the likelihood of a nuclear explosion.

Could the explanation be that of an experiment gone awry ? But that is as preposterous as the idea of possession of nuclear warhead. If at all, these people were able to build a nuclear warhead, where are the archeological remains of the reactors, or the labs, or the nuclear waste ?

Nuclear Radiation ?

At one site, Soviet scholars found a skeleton which had a radioactive level 50 times greater than normal.

and…

These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on par with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Radioactivity may actually remain for over a few billions of years, depending on the presence of the amount of radioisotopes. Normal radioactive exposure is considered as 300 millirems, at sea level, but permissible limit for an adult is 5000 millirems over the normal. 50 times normal would mean 15,000 millirems, which is fairly high. However, current background nuclear radiation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is just as normal as entire Globe. This level was reached in just 60 odd years. If a blast of the nature experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was responsible for such annihilation, how is it possible for the skeleton to remain so much radioactive, even after a couple of thousand years ?

Who is Kisari Mohan Ganguli ?

Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that “Indian sacred writings” are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. “The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees,” says Ganguli.
“Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people’s hair falling out.

I can’t say, if Mr Kisari Mohan Ganguli, actually Babu Kisari Mohan Ganguli, was a historian or not, but I can tell with absolute certainty, that he did interpret The Mahabharata into English. But there is a catch. The interpretation was done between 1883 and 1896, a good 50 odd years before the first atom bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, and a good 90 odd years before the interview was included in the apparently fake news mag or site.

The above quote will give the impression that Mr Kisari Mohan Ganguli, actually gave the interview to that mag/ site. But that is impossible. Also, his references to Hiroshima and Nagasaki are also very unlikely. It is possible, he was not even alive when the bombings took place. However, it is highly unlikely that he would misquote from his own translation. In the entire Mahabharata, translated by him, there is no mention of “parasol” or anything that resembles a “parasol”.

Who is Francis Taylor ?

There is no archeologist named Francis Taylor, [Google Scholar search]accept for an amateur English gentleman, as is clear from the first link. However, he is more concerned with local archeology and there is no evidence, at least on line, that he has ever visited the archeological sites of Mohenjo-Daro or Harappa. There is, rather was, another Francis Taylor, who was the museum curator, but he died in 1957.

Misquoting The Mahabharata:

This part is not from the original link that I am reviewing. However, I come across these quotes ever so often, that I feel like saying something, particularly, since these quotes are used as evidence of some nuclear explosion during the Vedic period. From Rense.com

“A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe…An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor…it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.”

“The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.”

“After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river.”

Well, guess what. The quotes don’t appear in The Mahabharata at all. Search for your self. The Mahabharata at SacredText.com is the one translated by Mr Kisari Mohan Ganguli, the same “historian” referenced in the original story, and is the only publicly available translation of The Mahabharata.

Closest you will ever come to that quote is as below:

Endeavoured to be deceived by those wicked ones, those ascetics, with eyes red in wrath, looked at each other and uttered those words. Having said so they then proceeded to see Keshava. The slayer of Madhu, informed of what had taken place, summoned all the Vrishnis and told them of it. Possessed of great intelligence and fully acquainted with what the end of his race would be, he simply said that that which was destined would surely happen. Hrishikesa having said so, entered his mansion. The Lord of the universe did not wish to ordain otherwise. When the next day came, Samva actually brought forth an iron bolt through which all the individuals in the race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas became consumed into ashes. Indeed, for the destruction of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas, Samva brought forth, through that curse, a fierce iron bolt that looked like a gigantic messenger of death. The fact was duly reported to the king. In great distress of mind, the king (Ugrasena) caused that iron bolt to be reduced into fine powder. Men were employed, O king, to cast that powder into the sea. At the command of Ahuka, of Janarddana, of Rama, and of the high-souled Vabhru, it was, again, proclaimed throughout the city that from that day, among all the Vrishnis and the Andhakas no one should manufacture wines and intoxicating spirits of any kind, and that whoever would secretly manufacture wines and spirits should be impaled alive with all his kinsmen. Through fear of the king, and knowing that it was the command of Rama also of unimpeachable deeds, all the citizens bound themselves by a rule and abstained from manufacturing wines and spirits.

Last paragraph.

Does not even come close to the description of a nuclear explosion.

Other radioactive cities:

Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous. A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built. For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators’ gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region.

Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

Ancient cities, roughly connected to the Indus valley civilization, are actually been discovered, rather unearthed in Rajasthan, by ASI. And it is true that the region actually has high level of radiation, although ASI does not mention of any archeological site to be radioactive. The reason of such radioactivity is entirely different than what is been suggested. Indian Nuclear Project/ Power plant/ Testing sites/ nuclear waste dumping sites, are all located in those areas of Rajasthan. This might help understanding.

This is a story told to Surendra Gadekar. One day in Narora a worker with a geiger counter went to take tea in the canteen. His geiger counter suddenly went crazy. On investigating he found that the radioactivity was coming from the fire used for preparing the tea. Further investigation led to the discovery that the wood being burnt had originally been used for scaffolding inside the plant, and had got contaminated and hence should have been stored as low-level waste. Instead it had been sold to a contractor, who had fortunately sold it back to the canteen: hence this sordid practice of how the establishment deals with its waste was detected.

~snip~

If the centralized bureaucracy of Maurya Kings two thousand years ago had discovered nuclear power, we in India and Pakistan would probably still be spending half our current national budget storing and caring for or repairing the damage done by atomic wastes.

Source

I studied medicine in Calcutta. But even there I had never seen so many patients with tumors in a single day. On talking to these people in Tamlao I found that almost all the symptoms had appeared after five or more years of the reactor’s commissioning.

Source

I have already discussed why, after thousand of year of its detonation, an atomic bomb, “about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945” can’t possibly be the reason behind any radioactivity in an area.

Lonar Crater :

Lonar crater

Lonar crater

Lonar crater is hardly a mystery anymore. Here’s the HTML version of a PDF file, which is not downloadable, at the moment.

In 1973, based on the work done by K. Fredriksson of [Smithsonian Institution], Washington DC, D.J. Milton of US Geological Survey, California in collaboration with A. Dube and MS Balasundaram of Geological Survey of India impact origin of Lonar crater was established. They discovered breccia with shatter cones and material containing maskelynite. Maskelynite formation requires very high pressure almost 4 lakh times the average atmospheric pressure on the Earth. And this is created only during hypervelocity impact…Thus impact origin of Lonar crater was proved.

All rational persons follow a rule of thumb. If something is too good to be true, then, in all likelihood, it is not true. A little skepticism is actually a sign of a healthy mind. Unfortunately, for some people, with a giant gullible bone, anything that shines, is gold.

[Valuable inputs from xenophilia.com]

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146 Responses to “Evidence of nuclear explosion in ancient India ?”

  1. Gaurav Bhagat Says:

    As being indian I have been always interested in knowing the history of india. Most things are amazing to hear but hard to believe as we don’t find many evidences around.
    The thing which for sure I know is…Jodhpur incident…I didnt know before a couple years about the radioactive site I read in few websites. If the place they say is correct, then it was just behind my home…about 2-3 kms from my home there.
    Few things which I have noticed in a last few years about cancer and birth defects is that there is some truth in it. I myself lost my first baby(in 2003) for unknown cause (after full 9 month pregnancy), just before a couple days of due date. And that’s not it, in my neighborhood there were many similar cases, and in most cases doctors didn’t have any reason for it. And for sure I know that the housing development board was digging behind for making next sectors (it’s one of the biggest housing colonies in asia), those new sectors never finished, I did not know the reason but they stopped at sector 25 which was built before year 2000.
    there are other interesting things which I know as I lived in jodhpur for most of my life but I will let it go.
    it’s definitely hard to comprehend when you live in the age where pythagorus and euclid are known are known as great mathematicians, regardless that now so many researchers and mathematicians know that most of what they did was available in India 100s of years before they were even born. Sulbhasutram book is one of the example in which you can see and compare the quality of proofs which pythagorus and others did after a few hundred years. I have compared a couple by myself and I find it very easy to understand that why Pythagorian proofs are so difficult to comprehend than in Sulbhasutram.
    So, finally…understand what you might…it doesn’t change our present. Anyway, I like to find the truth without being partial to anything and thats how I do my research.

  2. Twit Says:

    Gaurav Bhagat,

    Thanks for dropping by and leaving your thoughts.

    Certain areas in Rajasthan are indeed radioactive. If you visit those links given, you will know why.

    Having the understanding of basic mathematics or astronomy or chemistry or perhaps even physics is one thing, but building a nuclear weapon is probably, another.

    Regards

    • Mayank Kulshreshtha Says:

      Dude

      Just because the reader above mentions that India had an understanding of several concepts in maths and science before the west doesn’t mean that they were limited to basics. Besides, the source and use of technology was different. You clearly have never visited Rajasthan. You have just googled everything that you are claiming. You probably no nothing of the past of Rajasthan and its connection to Mahabharata more than what is mentioned on Google. So just lay off.

  3. Tyler Says:

    I found this to be a very interesting and informative article. I had been searching the internet for quite a while ever since first reading about the apparent nuclear explosion in pre-history India. I had been struggling to accept that such a history shattering event could have occurred and thankfully this article offered a scientific and logical explanation.

    Incidentally as far as I’m aware a dirty bomb is capable of killing an entire city full of people whilst leaving the majority of infrastructure intact. Though this of course being technology only recently available to civilization and probably wouldn’t have killed everyone instantaneously like a conventional nuclear weapon.

    Anyway, I can sleep easy again secure in the knowledge that my understanding of history is largely correct, or at least conventional :). I think I shall keep an eye on this site form now on as it has several very interesting articles

    • "DirtBombs"...those slutty little things Says:

      Tyler….A dirty bomb is not capable of killing an entire city. With all due respect I’m afraid you’re a victim of media sensationalism. We few who have credible experience in the nuclear defense field refer to radiological dispersion devices (RDDs) as weapons of mass disruption. The only people likely to be killed in a RDD attack would be those killed by the blast. A caveat to this would be if fissile material were used; i.e., Plutonium 239, U235, or U233; and the first responders were stupid enough to use a wet decon setup versus a dry decon before properly identifying the isotope. However, there is modern weaponry capable of destroying large numbers of people while mostly leaving existing infrastructure intact….this is called a neutron bomb. I simply suggest you google and read about the fundamental concepts. What is allegedly described in the “The Mahabharata” is a very accurate description of a neutron bomb detonation and it’s after effects. This would have the overall effects you described in your post.

      If you would like another interesting topic to research I suggest looking at the Oklo nuclear reactors discovered in Gabon, Africa in 1972. They’re estimated to be 1.7 billion years old. I would look at and carefully consider what Dr. Glen Seaborg had to say about this discovery. Dr. Seaborg is the man who discovered plutonium which in turn made Fat Man possible.

      • Shaun DMello Says:

        Although very interesting, the Oklo nuclear reactors in Gabon, Africa that you speak of are a natural phenomenon. Humans weren’t around at the time of their formation. The theories and wild speculation without evidence over human knowledge of nuclear physics millenia ago is plain absurd in the face of evidence for human evolution. They almost always stem from ethnocentric or fundamentalist desires to glorify a particular civilization or to prove the antiquity of man as being the direct product of some invisible creator.

    • Mayank Kulshreshtha Says:

      You guys in the west have a very biaised understanding of history as has been fed to you by the nascent science that is evolving in the modern times. But gradually the modern scientists are finding things that force them to challenge their understanding so far. One of them is Carbon dating which has been found inaccurate. Also the age of human civilization and the understanding of the dawn of this civilization and its evolution. Indian scriptures that have often spoken about vast timeline from the past and lay down a very clear understanding of the cosmos have been rubbished because modern science doesn’t have proofs of the same. However, gradually we are all seeing it unravel. So you may choose to sleep tight in your limited understanding of the history. I certainly donot feel disturbed when my understanding is challenged.

      • tonys Says:

        A little bit like the stories of the earth on the back of elephants and turtles. I wonder what ever happened to those. Quick, let’s rationalise them.

  4. Twit Says:

    Tyler

    Thanks for dropping by and taking your time to leave a comment.

    I will have to disappoint you a little. Although I have several articles of similar debunking, right in the pipeline, but I won’t be able to update this site for at least 3 months now.

    Do come back after 3 months ;).

  5. Gaurav Bhagat Says:

    Well,
    one can’t just jump to nuclear bomb before some certain level of sciences available…it’s like jumping 50 steps up.
    If there are proofs of advanced knowledge in the past then it’s easier to comprehend the possibility of some sort of bomb available.
    So far except these websites ( I am reading this stuff from last 3-4 yrs now) only thing which I remember from my own memory is that before 10-15 yrs back I read in one Hindi newspaper (when I was living in Rajasthan) that some research institute made some weird alloy with the guidelines in old texts , and it has very strange qualities. I can’t recall now that what were those qualities or the text etc. but it was quite big article which mentioned a lot going on in this area.
    Later in last couple years, when I started doing research about some math facts, I found on some website quite similar stuff again…that they have developed 7-8 different alloys, some of them can’t be detected by radar etc.
    If this was possible by those old texts…then there can be many other things possible. it’s just like few more steps ahead …

  6. Twit Says:

    Gaurav,

    Appreciate your follow up.

    Building a nuke does not require “some…level of sciences”. It requires a considerable level of sciences. Nuke is not a firecracker that you can build in your room. If it was, then every country, would have built one. The massive infrastructure needed, would surely have left some traces. So far no trace.

    When we talk of “advanced knowledge in the past”, we mean, “advanced” either in comparison to the contemporary civilizations or in the context of the limitations of the equipments that seriously hindered the process of data gathering. We do not compare their knowledge to our times to call it “advanced”. May be we keep forgetting that, their “advanced” knowledge, compared to us, is in most cases, still primitive.

    Regarding vedic mathematics, you may read this.

    Regarding those alloys, I will appreciate it if you can forward me a link.

    Regards

  7. Alan Says:

    Hi :)

    Thought i would leave a reply. I read the same crazy story when browsing the web for something completely different. The story reads like some kind of new tomb raider movie. At first I took alot of the quotes at face value, but things just didn’t add up. A good for-instance would be why is it so low key? you would think if it was true the Indian government would be announcing it everywhere, how they are the smartest damn people in the whole world, bar none (I’ve run into quite a few indians that do that already).

    So i took to conducting some reseach and happily i found your site with everything already pointed out. I had already found the official “Mohenjo-Daro” web sites and the peculiar abscense of any mention of radioactive skeletons. After that I pretty much figured it was some crazy person trying to make a buck and they just forgot to write a book and publish a link and buy it on amazon.com.

    Good catch on searching the The Mahabharata for similar quotes, i took for granted that someone wouldn’t be dumb enough to lay the basis of a story on mis-quoting some translated ancient text, i guess i under-estimated them, or would that be over-estimating them? either way…

    Now that I think about it, does’t it sound like that animated version of Atlantis? :P lol zomg flying machines! magic crystals and bombs! ahh!

  8. Who is the Fool? Says:

    You have formed your opinion of ‘mockery’ by saying all printed books and evidence have been deleted and no govt nor private org. is researching this anymore. The problem with people is they trust their leaders. Have you not seen enough evidence lately that it is the “TRUTH” that is fought against & “FALSEHOOD” promoted?

  9. The End Says:

    You should wake up, this debunking trend is pathetic to say the least. But if you enjoy it and it makes you feel clever, then go on.

    Soon, you’ll see another cycle of the human history. Very soon.

    Enjoy!

  10. Vesa Says:

    Hello everyone.

    I found an article on the website of a real newspaper that mentions the theory of the nuclear destruction of Mohenjo-Daro:

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13920_stones.html

    The article ascribes the nuclear theory to Davneport (or Davenport?) and Vincenti.
    Disclaimer: I don’t know what the reliability of Pravda has been during this post-Soviet era… in Soviet times it was part of the propaganda machinery, as we know.

  11. Ancient World Says:

    There are a lot of amazing things that the ancient world has created, that is hard to belive in present times. We think of them as primative, but they were far beyond the caveman discovering the wheel.

    Its unfurtunate that India’s ancient culture and sanskrit language has dimineshed as a result of Islamic conquest and British colonialism…and even the incorrect practice of Hinduism set forth by the Brahmin caste. But these stories told by our ancestory of a great nation with great power and yogic spiritualism DID exist according to them. Airplanes, weapons, and palaces have been documented in whatever test that remains. Mahabharat is not the only vedic text that exist. Majority of the Indians have been told that they are of Aryan lineage..similar to the persians. We were not invaded by the aryans..we ARE the aryans.

    Maybe the Indian government is waiting to uncover ALL the facts before releasing any premature evidense. Let the archeologist, scientist, and sanskrit historians figure this out first before, jumping to conclusions. Furthermore we have to deal with curroption, politics, personal motives, and border restriction which prevent present day India to cross into its ancient borders of Pakistan to unlock more mysteries.

    Cloning and all that stuff was unheard of 50years ago. Who knows, maybe they had the knowledge to handle nuclear weapons without needing nuclear reactors..or who knows..maybe the himalayan mountains was a dumping site..or its buried in the desert areas of pakistan.

    Things are being uncovered with time, and slowly more pieces of the puzzle are being unraveled thru-out the world about the ancient cultures that existed. But India/Pakistan is a place where many more answers could be found. Many things (math, astrology, medicine, weaponry, transportation, faith) originated in India, but western civilization is very stuburn in acepting the fact that India’s current 3rd world economy, was once a great civilization.

  12. Some Guy Says:

    Neutron Bombs were developed to preserve Infrastructure but kill the biological agents that maintained the structure

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb

    An interesting development during the cold war. If any entity decided to deploy a Neutron bomb, why would they? Where could they have developed it? Although were going to need more proof to even say there could have had a Neutron Bomb or similar weapons.

  13. Oliver Twisted Says:

    Twill….I wonder whats the real reason behind this feverish debunking spree that you are on…….englighten me please if you could. Also it would be a good idea to post your particulars in here…mainly where you are from…what do you do…what are your interests…what faith you belong to…eh ??? Could not find anything in here. So Please.
    Anyways I agree with your take on Vedic Mathematics. I dont like mathematics very much maybe thats why..Grin !

  14. Twit Says:

    As you must have figured out that this is a very irregular blog. Right now I am tied down beyond my capacity to update this blog. I haven’t yet been able to decide about the direction this blog should take. I have posted some of the articles, which I had earlier posted on some forums. Thats all.

    Eventually when I am able to update this blog on regular basis, I will post something about me. And, btw, I call myself “Twit” not “Twill”.

  15. Shaun DMello Says:

    This was without a doubt one of the best articles I’ve read and extremely well put together, with a good and systematic presentation of facts.
    I am sick of reading stupid fantastic stories concocted by half witted Indians hanging on to the glories of ancient India because their country lacks any today. Before anyone accuses me of being a racist skinhead, I am an Indian and am just tired because I’m surrounded by superstitious idiots and Hindu apologists who can only hang on to the shreds of India’s ancient glory. Unfortunately, their tall claims and irrational and distorted world views only serve to insult and humiliate ancient India’s glory.

    Their natural sense of inferiority, stemming from a lack of any cause for national pride, requires them to hark back to the past and just like the Church of the Middle Ages their insecurity causes them to flourish their beliefs with even greater conviction.

    • DivineInterllect Says:

      Technically it still is considered ‘racist’ even though you are Indian. Expressing derogatory remarks about your own nationality shoulod not exclude or excuse you. In fact it is vain and immature to assume it is ‘only’ racist if another culture or nationality expressed it.

      Just thought I’d share that.

    • romo Says:

      You didnt use Indian name, I dont think U R Indian in your heart. If you tired surrounded by idiot, why don’t you moved away. By the way U R racist already. …

  16. Shiva Says:

    Love this stuff. I’ve been researching this for a (fictional) book I’m writing, a sequel to a spy novel actually. I found it because a lot of my adventure flavor is tied to Hindu mythology. Don’t really believe it, but glad there’s enough chatter about it to exploit for imaginative storytelling.

  17. Aromaz Says:

    I appreciate your clear mind. Today the internet is a huge source of information, but one has to work very hard to filter the junk out. It is amazing how many people take one persons posting as the absolute truth and keep on passing it around like a virus. They never try to verify such statements with additional and non-related sources.

    You did a very good job here and I wish you well.

    Not that this has anything to do with the Indian sites, but just to give you an open view for other possibilities like the Libyan and Syrian sites. There is a small window that could shed additional light on ancient possibilities. One has to understand the physics behind nuclear, to be able to understand how:

    A: Nuclear ‘explosion’ could occur in nature
    B: No nuclear ‘explosion’ nor waste material is needed to explain radiation detected in nature.
    C: The ancient text does not refer to nuclear, but there are descriptions which does sound comparable. How could this be without our modern day technology?

    There are at least two other possibilities to create nuclear reaction:

    A) There is the meteor impact that will have exactly the same potential result – if all variables are in place it can cause a nuclear reaction.

    B) By means of resonation – again such will require the combination of many variables. You will need the right natural oscillating crystals, sound vibration (trumpets, drums, flutes) – and most of all, you will need the right kind of element to stimulate. Now we know the ancients from India, Babylon, etc. were very fascinated with crystals (gemstones) and they were doing quite interesting things with these. We also know they were very aware of sound effects; in particular Indian.

    Typical modern day devices make use of a high impact explosion with shaped charge; kind of like shooting a trillion bullets and hope they will cause at least a million secondary explosions, which will then trigger the chain reaction.

    The natural possibility is resonance that will directly cause the ‘secondary’ explosion and with the other atoms already weakened by the resonance it will easily form the chain reaction. Nuclear reaction (and explosions) are not restricted to the so called nuclear minerals like Uranium, Radium, etc. A nuclear reaction could be obtained with any material under the right conditions. Calsium, silica, sulfur and sodium (Limestone) are three very interesting minerals since their structure make them very reactive to resonance! After all, each and every atom does some or other time experience a nuclei change.

  18. Leon Says:

    just a note, you say they have no evidence of equipment or factories used to build nuclear weapons. personally i wouldn’t expect to find any. you don’t exactly bomb yourself do you?
    on a side question about leveling a city, cause i’m not exactly educated, do biological and chemical weapons level a building? i saw a man get sprayed in the eyes by a cop once, now this may be on a different scale but the wall he was next to didn’t even get dented! wow! who knows maybe some bad people out there are able to make weapons that only effect living matter. but that can’t be possible cause it’s not mentioned in your thread, silly me.
    now back to the argument of needing technical knowhow to build a bomb. i think the whole backbone of the argument your debunking is, they were given this info from an extra terrestrial entity. ET may be cleaver enough to build a bomb and willing to share basic maths with us. not sure if he’s stupid enough to tell us how to make a weapon of mass destruction.
    perhaps they aught to go in and have a closer look at the radioactive areas. i’m curious to know how carbon dating works, cause if they are able to tell people what year the shroud of Jesus was painted then they must be able to tell the difference between radioactive traces from recent events of a power plant and those 3000 yr old cover up.

    personally i’m up for believing you on this debunk, you are speaking with so much conviction that you would be a fool not to have personally been their and done studies and tests before making such a wonderful list of debunks. ow i’m so looking forward to you telling us who you are, when the mystery is solved we will all be wowed by you…. or have you been speaking from a similar hat to the one worn by the author of the article your debunking. *he flips his coin* hmm two sides one penny.

  19. sol88 Says:

    It was just a arc

    Electric Craters on Planets and Moons

    http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050608craters.htm

  20. Shaun DMello Says:

    Hi Leon,
    Actually I do live in India and I have visited areas around the site and come in contact with researchers who’ve been there. The idea of the ancient explosion and the explanations for it were laughable to say the least. No such evidence has been found at the site. The theory being touted as an ancient explosion is not even newsworthy enough for the Indian media and a largely illiterate population that is susceptible to such propaganda.
    India’s had a glorious past, but well… that is in the past. For some who lack any pride in the present it becomes necessary to reclaim and discover some inexplicable glory in their past, like a slave who would take excessive pride in the fact that maybe his great great great great …great grand father was royalty.

  21. Leon Says:

    for some perhaps your right. for others it’s a matter of history. i know few historians who would consider themselves a slave to anything other than there own passion. it is ignorance and fear of change that tells people to leave the past buried.
    some people look into the past in an effort to learn from it, an effort to not repeat mistakes. They see people currently in positions of power who are to comfortable using words like “slave” instead of “average”.

    in the past fables where told to educate children on moral subjects with the goal of having them grow up a little wiser without first hand experience of misdeeds.
    all things change, all things develop and evolve. in a modern world you need modern warnings from the ancient past. so if what you say is true, if a people who are prone to believe propaganda are not willing to take value from a simple story that atleast online seems newsworthy enough, then perhaps your right, we don’t deserve to know the truth and the past should stay there.

  22. Vijay Says:

    This could have been a asteroid burst. Actually an asteroid can explode well above the earth and create a huge shockwave and heat burst. it flattens everything and the heat can kill and melt things on the surface.

  23. Sam McConnich Says:

    Well done and well put together. Thank you for the insight.

  24. Shaun Says:

    Hi Leon, I do believe you misunderstood me. I am an avid history buff, not a historian, but I love the subject and do a lot of research myself. So, the notion that the past should stay buried and forgotten is absurd. We are nothing and would be nothing if not for our past, and knowledge of your past gives you the power to some extent shape your future. My problem was not with the history, but with the misinterpretation and false glorification of history. This generally tends to happend when there is a decline in a civilization and its population resorts to falsification of history because of their inferiority. This happens all the time in India, and I’ve seen denials and attempts bury all traces of british rule in india. That’s ridiculous, cause most of our institutions and every thing that is still functional derives from the british era. These very same people who keep harking back to our culture have scarce value for heritage structures that are left to decay. There are forts even in Mumbai and around that are used more like urinals and toilets and garbage dumps by slum dwellers and citizens with no civic sense or hygiene. I guess it just shows how much we value our heritage!

  25. Sree Says:

    I wonder why Robert Oppenheimer, the founder of the Nuclear bomb, seems to believe that a nuclear explosion ‘did’ took place in ancient India. Mr.Oppenheimer, who was also known to be familiar with ancient sanskrit literature, answered an inquiry from a student at RochesterUniversity thus:

    Student: Was the bomb exploded at Alamogordo during the Manhattan Project the first one to be detonated?

    Dr. Oppenheimer: Not the first one, but in modern times, of course yes.

    Absence of a logical evidence does not mean that it did not take place. After 5000 years do you think that any evidence would be available that an atomic explosion had taken place at Hiroshima and Nagasaki (even if those cities weren’t rebuilt) other than some radioactive ashs like the one found in Jodhpur, Rajasthan.

    • tonys Says:

      Oppenheimer was not an archaeologist. I don’t take advice on how to rebuild car engines from a gynecologist.

      • Keith Taylor Says:

        Silly tony: the first powered aircaraft is credited to a pair of bicycle mechanics; Mozart was composing music at the age of four; there are more CHILDREN here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_child_prodigies
        I know of accountants, medical doctors; plumbers and a host of other people who have built their own aircraft, hotrods, saloon cars, houses and all kinds of things with no qualifications in those fields. Open your mind, man, you just might learn something from the most unexpected quarters!

  26. Shaun DMello Says:

    The lack of evidence most definitely does not constitute evidence. Such a method of reasoning and scientific investigation would give pseudo sciences like ‘intelligent design’ the same merit as paleoanthropology and the theory of evolution, which are based on sound scientific evidence. If there are gaps in a railway line it still is proof that there was a line and although we may not know the exact route we would know the direction, but the absence of any tracks does not prove that there was a railway line. It’s foolish to posit the lack of evidence for something scientific as scientific evidence, when all it is, is a fantasy.

  27. Asani Says:

    Well even if there was not a nuclear explosion in harappa I am not getting the reason of particular India bashing style of writing by the blogger and in some of the replys. I do not question the reason behind the(political/religious/envious) motive but it is true that in ancient India scientific and medical technologies were very much present.
    If you study science deeply and without bious (which I am sure none of you guys have done) you will unerstand that science can happen in many ways and if one generation is totally wiped out a new life evolution may happen differently and follow a diffrent science.
    Just for your kind information many of the modern day drugs found their natural sources from ancient texts and tradition (you can believe me in this, I am a biologist). Astronomy also flourished in India really well and so did war techniques.
    It is a very good practise to scrutinize things before arriving a conclusion but you should not be too proud – who knows like the Giant Panda or Fossil of the lockness like dino may surprise you one day.

    Oh by the way, I see so many 0′s for harappa civilization dates “3000-1500″ – who invented the zeroes you are using with your brainstorming tech?? Indians ?? No, No! how could they be , they are and were a junk of……………

  28. Leena Arun Says:

    ABSURD!!! i thought at first that this is an interesting article of study, but as i proceed i only find that this author is either a very pessimistic person who CANNOT accept facts and who rather, calling himself as the advocate of the week and pretending to be so, only tries to argue for the facts that he also knows are wrong and that too with very weak points. I REGRET HAVING WASTED MY PRECIOUS TIME SO FAR IN READING THIS ARTICLE AND ALSO WASTING MORE TIME ON WRITING THIS.

  29. Twit Says:

    Sree,

    Dr Oppenheimer, was neither a historian, nor an archeologist. He liked Sanskrit and Hindu philosophy. That’s all that there is to it. For me Dr Oppenheimer’s opinion about history holds the same value as Chomsky’s opinion about nuclear physics.

    Shaun DMello,

    This is also relevant to Sree’s last para. I understand that absence of evidence is not necessarily the evidence of absence. But we use something called Occam’s razor – meaning, all things remaining same, we consider the simplest explanation, that has minimum variables to be explained.

    Empirical evidence is all that matters. Otherwise, tooth fairy and Santa Clause would be true. So would be Russell’s teapot.

    The entire argument of “Intelligent Design” is based on the logical fallacy called argument from incredulity. My argument, if you had noticed, is not based on incredulity, but careful examination of the so called “evidence” presented. I found the evidences, not only inadequate, but mostly concocted.

    Asani,

    I didn’t bash India, but bashed the idea of nuclear India circa 3000 BC. Please try to make that distinction.

    Leena Arun,

    It is strange, and a tad hypocritical, that you accuse me of being a “pessimistic person” and that I “can’t accept facts”, when you are the one, who is finding it hard to accept, that the so called “facts” are in fact lies.

    Btw, I have never claimed to be the “the advocate of the week”. However, I would love to learn, which of the “facts” that I have provided, are wrong.

  30. Leon Says:

    I’m relatively certain that in 100yrs the history books will recall Dr Oppenheimer; Sree i’m absolutely certain they won’t recall you.
    so before you down play and down drag someone who is not currently here to defend themselves be sure your of equal stature.

    using a time line to fill in the gaps is only going to work if you have enough pieces of a puzzle to see the shapes of the missing pieces. we don’t.
    earth’s history is riddled with gaps of such magnitude that entire civilisations spanning hundreds of thousands of years could simply slip between the sheets.
    From that timeline you are clinging to histories written within a few lifetimes and laid out by antiquated techniques as old as Darwin.
    Mankind is reaching maturity and with that comes a few realisations. a child see’s themself as the centre of everything, they can do nothing else. a childlike science came up with the ideas that you are clinging to. a childlike science incapable of looking outside the box, never mind thinking there.

  31. Leon Says:

    sorry Sree that was actually directed at Twit’s reply to your comment.

  32. Jeffrey Charles Archer Says:

    Though it is indeed a possibility that ancient India and various gods with vimana (flying machines) indeed did fight battles with technology equal to or surpassing current knowledge, this should indeed be argued using accurate quotation and logical and verifiable techniques. In the same way that one bigfoot hoax can seemingly discredit legitimate encounters, likewise, shoddy scholarship can bring disrepute to a theory such as the ancient nuclear war theory that might possibly maintain some degree of truth.

  33. Surat Singh Says:

    Absolutely a piece of crap!!!
    The author just does not seems to come to terms with the fact that something of this sort can occer outside America or europe. According to you, Aryabhatt was joker and you can crap his theories because he was brownie? Mr. twit or whoever you are, your so called science till date has not come to term with the fact that what is this life made of leave alone debuggin what the past was. Everybody is guessing and putting a brave front, yoru white people debunked the Vedas just because they could not understand what was in it , they thought ENGLISH language was the savior.
    You and peopl like you rot , Mohanjodaro or hraapa were destroyed in nuclear warfare or not, according to you , radioactive material is just found in nature and is nothing a big deal about it in Harrapa. How rediculous, people with a histroy of mere 300 years wants to dictate how the civilization was 5000 years ago. CRAP!!!

  34. Shaun DMello Says:

    Hey Surat, your anti-colonial ravings and rantings are as disgusting as imperialistic or colonial era prejudices of the west. While the scientific and academic community of the west has largely overcome intellectual, colonial, and christian prejudices a section of former slaves seems to be adopting the very same narrow minded and fanatical beliefs of the church and former colonial powers. Your statements are absolutely inarticulate and unintelligible. To be completely honest they reveal a lack of knowledge about Indian culture, the vedas, modern science, and ancient history. But ignorance and arrogance do go hand in hand, so keep on raving and ranting.

  35. aruna Says:

    You assume that the nuclear bomb would look the same i.e be a mushroom cloud etc. as the modern one. I am a hindu and in the Maharbharat the astra or weapon that has a similiar effect as a nuclear bomb i.e it annilates entire civilisations and leaves the earth unable to sustain life was mentioned in the Battle of kurukhshetra. It is called the brahma astra and it was forbidden to be used for obvious reasons. I believe teh effects were described in the Maharbharat. It was said that the land after the use of the brahma astra would not be able to be livable for years after and would be barren. I do not think it was used in the maharbharata i.e teh battle of kurukhshetra itself due to its power but was used at when the battle ended by a bitter man and aimed at the womb of the woman who was carrying teh last remaining desendent of the Pandavas who were teh victors in teh battle.

    Forgive some of my spelling. In any event it was so long ago and whether that knowledge was available then, it probably a good thing that it is lost now if it did exist.

  36. Ashwatthaman Says:

    Please visit my Blog… I want your opinion.
    |
    http://ashwatthamanphiloctetes.blogspot.com/
    |
    According to the philosophy of the people of India prior to 700 BC, {I do not want to degarde them and call them “Hindus”. I have a strong feeling they would curse me if I do so.} everything in this universe is either one of the “Pancha Bhootas” {Five Elements} or a combination of two or more or all the Pancha Bhootas. These “Five Elements” are NOT the elements of the periodic Table. When the so called “Brahma Astra” is launched it seperates everything to it’s elementary parts. It seperates the “Pancha Bhootas”. Veda Vyasa, In the “Vana Parva”, narrates the story of Rama and Sita to console the Pandavas. He tells how Rama by using the Brahma Astra against Ravana sperated Ravana’s “Pancha Bhootas”.

    The text reads…

    And beholding Ravana slain by Rama of famous achievements, the celestials, with the Gandharvas and the Charanas, rejoiced exceedingly. And deprived of universal dominion by the energy of the Brahma weapon, the five elements forsook the illustrious Ravana. And were consumed by the Brahma weapon, the physical ingredients of Ravana’s body. His flesh and blood were all reduced to nothingness,–so that the ashes even could not be seen.’”

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03288.htm

    I can only hope with my whole heart that the text is not an interpolation by some Brahmin.

    MAY BE WE SHOULD NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF TREATING OUR NUCLEAR BOMBS WITH THE ANCIENT “TECHNOLOGY”. I don’t know how you react to my putting it like this but sometimes Indian behaviour is like that of a young teenager who is worried about the size of his penis. That’s what I observe in Indian, “We-Know-About-It-Thousands-Of-Years-Ago-You-Know” attitude. Indians suffer from an unnecessary identity crisis.

    Please read Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri’s “The Holy Science”. The book costs 45/- {Indian Rupees}. The introduction itself is mind boggling.

    In my blog and also here I was quoting Kisari Mohan Ganguli’s translation.

    Our greatness does not lie in our having had “Astra Vidya”. Our greatness lies in our losing Astra Vidya. {If and only if we had it in the fisrt place.}

    I forgot to mention… your views are great. May be you got used to this compliment.

  37. Vril Says:

    Twit,
    Although I agree with you on your dissecting the issue at hand with solid scientific reasoning at your disposal, what I and perhaps others see is your lack of abilities to tackle it with some ‘lateral thinking’..which I believe being a man of Science is also about. I remember a fancy quote, not sure who said it, that “The mind is the matter of the universe”. :D..

    Albeit, it looks improbable that with the evidences gathered from the sites mentioned in most likelihood do not point towards a Hiroshima like event (I mean, the people were still using earthernware pots!), it is indeed noteworthy that ancient races around the world might have at their disposal mathematical and scientific know-how far beyond what is generally believed. eg. Mayan and Vedic mathematics. The concepts of time and space in the ancient seem to be guised in seemingly mythical ramblings of ancient storytellers. If anything, these do warrant a closer look.

  38. Stubby Says:

    I like what I am reading, givin sufficiant time the truth will reveal it self. The argument about the west verses east…. Dogma. If ancient people had the ability to wipe each other out with weapons of mass destruction it should at the vary least lend some credibility to the old saying “History Repeats It Self” The mistake we seem to make as a race ( HUMAN ) is that when we are given the tools to create we fail, the focus seems bent on how much damage and destruction we can cause. It is a shame that in our “Modern Age” we are so quick to pass off the learnings of previous history as “Primative” the freedom we were to achive with technology has shackled us, our lives our not our own. At some point I hope as a race ( HUMAN ) we see the true gift of all the ancient and modern versions of what we call Religion come to frutation. That each and everyone of us learn to peacfully co-exist in harmony on this planet without destroying it and ourselfs in the process. The planet will survive us, we choose through action or lack therin wether we can survive on it.

    Please forgive the spelling errors, as I am but a humble tradesman.

  39. nehopsa Says:

    Oops, this a piece of SHIT this ancient nuclear warfare stuff!! It was yesterday on History channel. WHAT A SHIT! I am so pissed off by this stupid sensationalist channel that clothes (I have used expletives a couple times already, in bold) stories in a mantel of “truth” or at least seriously to be considered possibilities given the “evidence” they furnish. I am sure that more than one person is now a believer, at least for a time, in those “ancient mysteries” and dumbs down her/his elementary understanding of what history is about in favor of pop mythology spin. Good job, Hysteria channel. That is how you keep your viewers. Shame. Shame. Shame.

    Thank you for debunking point by point their “evidence”.

    I did some elementary googling this morning and vent across various stinking webs. Finally someone reasonable took up the challenge, here.

    Thank you so much again.

  40. pallavi Says:

    I do not belive what has been written by you as The Indian Aeronautical Enginerring department is seriously studing the ancient sanskrit text.You are comparing the information with your present knowledge might be in future such bombs can be mad which only affect the degradable objects and the undegradable objects like bricks etc are left behind

  41. Reji Says:

    Nice discussion. I find that some people are finding it hard to accept the fact that ancient people were smarter than us.If we can make a nuclear weapon why cant they? After all we still cant replicate the biggest pyramid. Nor we can find a better exercise than Yoga.

    • Abhilash D Says:

      Actually, there are loads of exercise routines that are “better” than Yoga, for specific problems. Where the hell do you guys pull out this stuff from?

      You know why they’re called ancient people? Because they were ancient! Modern science is 400 years old. I will accept that the ancients had nuclear weapons if you show me unequivocal evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. That you can’t no one can. And we have evidence to the contrary. Now if you want to believe your fairytales, go ahead. Don’t disseminate misinformation and nationalist propaganda to others because that destroys peace and progress and leads to division.

      • Vinit Gupta Says:

        Doest seem to be like you’re a scientist mate………grow up and stop faking yourself you really can’t participate in the discussion.

  42. Reji Says:

    I wonder why J.Robert Oppenheimer who is the father of the atomic bomb was so interested in Baghavad gita and recalled a phrase from it after the atomic bomb nuclear test in Mexico .I am a Hindu and even i have not read the Baghavad gita .Why should a nuclear physicist should go through the trouble of learning an ancient language like sanskirt just to read Baghavad gita. I guess he must of got some hint..:) ….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

    • Abhilash D Says:

      I’m an atheist, a scientist and I’ve read the Gita, commentaries on the Upanishads, the Bible and the Qur’an. Why? Ooooh, I must have some hidden agenda.

      /s

      *epicfacepalm*

      I find our modern Indian standards of evidence; what takes people to believe, so ludicrous.

  43. Manish Says:

    According to ancient texts,there has been mention of weapons like Brahmastra,in Mahabharata war which had the ability to produce catastrophic effects.Well, but its difficult to say if these weapons existed at the time of Ramayana and Mahabharat,but at the same time I want to let everyone know that still there may be lot of cities buried underground during the Early Vedic,Ramayana & Mahabharata period(8000-3100 B.C.) in northern parts of India,especiallyDelhi,Hastinapur,Ayodhya,
    Patna,Bhubaneshwar and many other ancient cities. Civilisations could be found if excavations are conducted in these regions to discover more mysteries and secrets at that time.But as a matter of fact government of India has done nothing or very less in this regards uptill now.

  44. Manish Says:

    Also what I feel is that since a catastrophic flood has been recorded by the scientists to be around 3000 B.C. exactly when city of Dwarka was submerged underwater,most of the coastal parts of India were consumed.Mohenjodero and Harappa must have been built around 2000 B.C when Indians started migrating towards west and later abandoned it due to unknown reasons.

  45. ali raza Says:

    it is possible that ancient indian capable of nuclear weapons, many mistories lies in history, regarding harrapa i told that i m living just 20 miles away from harrapa at sahiwal, local lengend says that city was destroyed by flood, if you understand Punjabi, “harr” is punjabi world for flood.”paa ” means, place, remains. recent flood in Pakistan shows also its possible that cities can be destroyed or entire population died due to flood. mohenjodero, is located in sind, mohenjo world for dead in sindi language, dero means, place, settlement. simple mean, settlement of dead people, there is evendance of killing of large number of people during some ancient war at one layer of city. But there is no evidence of atomic blast.

  46. Mikhail Says:

    Hello, Ladies and Gentlemen.

    I watched the History channel special on this topic, I did a little browsing to see the arguments presented above both in the article and comments.
    The Vedic texts (translated to English for me and Oppenheimer) seem to be misquoted in the Special as Twit points out. Does anyone disagree about the misquotation specifically? Not the existence or importance of nuclear weapons in India now or 3000 years ago, both as a cultural, military and religious phenomenon, but just the misquotation.

    What TWIT is trying to say is that the information that is presented in the History Channel special and the articles associated with it, is circular and uncorroborated. At least as it is presented.

    Does Twit have definite proof that Atomic weapons did not exist 3000 years ago? Well, he has as much proof for it as can be 3000 years later. Occams razor is a powerful tool. Lets use it. We have several articles that contain mysterious quotes, exaggerations and anecdotes of non credible or misquoted people that have been made into a show. And we have nothing else. There are unexplained ruins, sure there are unexplained deaths. However none of them have anything nuclear about them.
    So after the razor is done what we have is a Hysteria TROLL article. RACISM+ANCIENT+TECHNOLOGY+MYSTERY+SCIENCE+FAR AWAY LAND = NUKES LOST IN TIME in INDOPAKISTAN =Hitler sent his scientists to let the aryans test his nukes for WW2 = Tutankhamen MAde Quantum Tunnel to Harrapa 47 died =

  47. Trazan Clarkson Says:

    First and formost the writer of this article completely has their facts twisted and turned. The theory is not that the Indian’s had the technology at all, get your story straight before you write it Twit. There is nothing but evidence that there was a nuclear blast and if you do your research you will see throughout history there has been numerous battles in the sky. Picture yourself two thousands years ago, how else would you describe story’s except by using God’s and Demon’s as the characters. Scientist’s proved we couldn’t fly going into the 20th century remember, and we would never reach the moon would we. When people stop taking literally what every story in ancient books and even our own bible describe word for word, and maybe open your mind a little, progress will come from it. Until then keep thinking the world is flat, we can’t fly, and we will never make it to the moon. Ignorence is bliss, closed mindedness is stupidity, open minds reshape the world and uncover the truth about our past.

  48. Anirudh Kumar Satsangi Says:

    Myth may also be a reality. Mythological facts are not averse to scientific investigation. We know that some solar systems other than ours have binary star (Sun). Ours has only one Sun. But there may be a possibility that our solar system might also have binary star some millions or billions year ago. It is written in Hanuman Chaleesa:”Bal samay Ravi bhaksh liyo tab teenahu lok bhayo andhiyaro” in English it mean that during his childhood Hanumanji had gobbled up Sun and darkness spread in entire universe. But this is cosmological phenomena. This is not possible for some super natural power who assumes physical frame on this Earth Planet to gobble up Sun. The other Sun(?) might have met Its natural death. Hanumanji is believed as the Incarnation of Lord Rudra. According to Hindu Mythology Lord Rudra is the God of Destruction or God of Annihilation.

    • Abhilash D Says:

      Hello. Modern astronomy and astrophysics would like to take you into a dark room and beat the shit out of you for disgracing them.

      A binary star around our sun indeed. Do you have ANY idea of the time scales involved in star formation and deaths? If our sun had another star, there would be no life on Earth. FFS.

  49. Prehistoric Fallout | Jupiter@Nite | Jupiter Broadcasting Says:

    [...] Blast http://veda.wikidot.com/ancient-city-found-in-india-irradiated-from-atomic-blast (Refuted: http://twitscope.wordpress.com/2008/07/12/evidence-of-nuclear-explosion-in-ancient-india/#more-40) Chernobyl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl Meltdown Disaster: AUDIO REPORT — [...]

  50. shiraz khan Says:

    I believe the nuclear attacks at supposed sites like the Indus valley are not of human technology but extra terrestrial who were witnessed by most at the time and recorded by such. Now I believe the aliens have realised we have enough level of technology to defend this planet thus they just watch from above as we still get reports of sightings no matter how absurd it sounds. Call me crazy if you may or an alien freak but I’m not alone in this theory.

    p.s appreciate my gratitude when I say I’m really impressed with the effort of your article twit although very persuading I’m not bought in this theory that there’s a logical explanation for all claims.

  51. Desi Says:

    That Mohenjodaro was destroyed by something like a modern atomic bomb is a hypothesis which couldn’t be proved. It was not even taken seriously by most people. However, there are a few facts like fused clay pieces etc which (if true) need to be explained, and I would have been happy if Twit had come up with some alternative explanation.
    What is more bothersome is the tone that the author takes, that of a person who knows all and who has the right to mock others. Be humble my friend. You don’t know even 0.01 % of what all is there. Particularly in the field of Ancient Indian History, all mainstream theories are merely conjectures. not backed by hard evidence.
    If we take your railway line analogy, then in the case of ancient Indian history, there are only gaps (with occasional discovery of sleepers and ballast like in the case of Mohenjodaro, Harrappa, Lothal, Patliputra etc) and still you and people like you have conclusively decided all the dates when the line was incorporated, construction started and stations established, where the engines, coaches and technology was “imported”, the race and language of the employees and passesgers, and also the conflicts between them, and also the economic coauses of the conflict and their relationship with currently prevalent ideologies, and also how everything goes on to prove the point of view you and your tribe have been espousing. You and your tribe have created a whole piece of cloth even without possessing a single thread.
    For science, an open mind is first requirement and humility follows closely. Phrases like Hindu apologists don’t help in quest for knowledge though they may help in winning brownie points with politicos and Marxist affiliated flagbearers.

  52. Richard Says:

    One article I read did cite a news source:

    http://s8int.com/images4/oklo-news2.jpg

    However I have been unable to locate an issue of the New York Times from 1972 to confirm. The story goes that ancient nuclear reactors were actually found, and reported by the New York times in 1972, but were concluded to be somehow natural. I would be interested to read if anyone could locate this article and verify it’s validity.

  53. bluelotus Says:

    First of all- all pointers are that civilization itself (all over the world) is much older than this 5000-6000 years bunkum that we hear.

    Civilizations have existed before Harappa/Mohenjodaro/ Sumerian/Mesopotamian.

    The marine excavations have shown artifacts that have been carbon dated to 30000 years back at the oldest and 9000 years back to the latest time.

    My point is a lot has happened, all over the world. Our history is way older. Our governments dont want to reveal anything because, we ourselves are biased – oh what if we find there were intelligent beings way past our intelligence level who lived in the past say a million years ago. They lived then got wiped out. We may never know how. But the possibility that they lived just as we are doing today is 100%. We Will be wiped out too for sure in the future, and maybe there will be no trace of us either.

  54. Manjunath Rao Says:

    Assuming that what you say here is true and all this myth about nuclear ancient India is figment of imagination, I still have one question.

    How can you explain the graphic description of destruction given in Mahabharatha? Falling of hairs, poisoning of water, poisoning of grass grown in the area. The destruction of the clan due to fighting using poisoned kusha grass etc. Unless it was contaminated as stated, there cannot be no other explanation.

    Also how can you explain the graphic description of clone children in Mahabharatha?

    For hundreds of years these records of actual historical events were considered as myth, the advancement made in modern nucluear physics, archeology and also in cloning technologies makes these stories sound so credible.

    So before debunking anything you should give a benefit of doubt. It may be true as you suggest that the contributions made on internet earlier may be a propaganda. But you have to accept that these stories do exist in original Mahabharatha. How do you explain that?

    • Abhilash D Says:

      Did you know that you can pick up any damn book and find patterns in them? That is what the human mind does. It looks for patterns. It is inherently Bayesian.

      Who was that scientist, who, just to prove this point, picked up a copy of the Moby Dick and showed that it predicted 9/11?

  55. Xan Says:

    hmmmm…nice article.I some how agreed with bluelotus.It can be possible.if even we assume that these theories are just bullshit we never found the proof against it.So when and who is going to clear the picture?as per mayan calender ancient gods will come back on that date.even the most renowned Physic once told that one day humans will find the proof of such ancient technologies/civilizations after some catastrophic events such as earthquake or floods………………..Damn, i cant wait for the Answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  56. VOICE OF REASON Says:

    INDIANS have invented practically EVERYTHING. And thats not even a hyperbole. YOU GUYS ARE JUST DeLuSiONeD! In fact, I think the Indians of before have actually discovered even Space and Time Travel. It was in the Vedas. “Space and Time are interconnected and can be traveled by a series of hymns and rhythms”. I believe they have already left! And if they can time travel in space and time, that would also explain why the ruins are the way you see them today. I can’t WAIT for the day that our ancient ancestors come back from time and take us SUPREME Indians back to our glory days.

    YoU gUys ArE DeLuSiOnAl! I mean seriously, what seems more sensible? Time traveling, space traveling, nuclear bomb building Vedic super humans? Or the “reality” we are in today. LOL. I laugh at your stupidity!

  57. Eric Marks Says:

    I have a question for the author of this article. Do you get paid for your mindless debunking efforts, or are your beliefs so ingrained within you that you do this kind of thing for fun. Not because your theories have any merit, not because you think you’re right, but because you think that you’re so smart and everyone else is so stupid. It must be your self appointed job to demonstrate your towering intellect, but alas, it is time to knock you down a few pegs.

    You’re first point of contention is that if these ideas were valid, then the websites that present the material should be saying where their source information is coming from, correct? Well indeed some do. The first hand source material comes from the World Island Review, January 1992 and is written by, Bryant Stavely. It talks about how the Mahabharata describes the events, and explains the very real fact that scientists found irradiated soil, fused rock and skeletons with radioactivity on par with victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You’re indirect assertion that only websites cover this material and that it cannot be found elsewhere. Wrong again, buddy. Do you watch the History Channel? They have a show called Ancient Aliens and that is the first place I learned about the fused rock and irradiated soil. This was the same argument that some other narrow-sighted skeptic gave in relation to the pair of UFO battles that occured in 1561 in Nuremburg Germany and three years later in 1564 in Switzerland. The author of that article claimed that it never really happened and the fact most websites say the article came from the Nueremburg Gazette is proof. Why? Because the printing press had not even been invented! Very true, but what the author was ignornant of was the fact that newspapers were usually printed on animal skins or other left-over food remenents. They were rolled and pressed like a sheet of dough until a writable surface is formed. The Nuemburg Gazette was precisely this kind of newspaper and is another example where witnesses believed they saw some kind of aireal battle. Again however, the strange series of events was interpreted religiously, not technologically. Another point you tried to make was done by showing readers photographs of the archeological site in question, is also way off. Do you know why evidence for the destruction of Troy, an actual city that appears in Homer’s epic poem the Illad? It is because early archeologists were on the wrong layer! Troy has at least 14 different geological layers built one on top of the other, and for years scholars thought the site could not be troy because no evidence for cataclysmic destruction existed. That is until one archeologist figured out that she was excavating the wrong layer. When she and her team excavated the correct level, there was direct evidence for monumental obliteration. Do you see my point? You don’t know if you’re even looking at the correct layer! The science is real, I’ve seen the source material. The fact that I’d already seen it on Ancient Aliens made little difference to the conclusion I’ve reached. It was just incentive for more research and data collection, to ascertain whether or not there was anything to what I saw on tv.

    It is ok if you’re own beliefs(be they scientific or spirutal) do not allow you to look at both sides of the story. That is what I did. Otherwise I would never have read your article. Now that I have and now that I’ve heard what other debunkers have to say, the only conclusion I can reach is that the skeptic is driven by belief just as much as the religiously faithful. If you had taken more time to learn about the things you speak of, you would not be so willing to jump to conclusions. Nor would you be so deadset on proving the theory wrong.

    Another place where evidence of advanced technology in the ancient world rests in Abydos Egypt at the Egyptian temple of Osiris. Abydos was the first burial ground for the pharaohs and it was venerated during the early new kingdom when the temple was constructed. There are some very strange hieroglyphs on the wall, depicting a helicopter, some kind of submarine, an object that looks suspiciously like a spaceship and something else that looks like a tank! I know I know, you’re probably saying, but Eric, archeologists proved that the hieroglyphs were actually the combination of two sets of glyphs. One supposedly left by Seti the first, and the so-called palimpset(glyphs that are engraved on top of a previous inscription and thus subject to chaotic forces, which in turns would mean that the hieroglyphs appearence would be purely coincidental. Well, that is another completely wrong explanation. A brilliant Canadian Professor and mathmetician named Jiri Muerzek decided to test the unusual abydos glyph for evidence of orderly presentation and careful planning. He decided the best way to do that was to scale the section in question to the proper size, and super-impose the “diagram of the classic golden section” on top to see if sacred geometry was used to make the engraving. By following a set methodology required for accurate results, Muerzek found that the scene was carefully structured; which would indicate the Egyptians meant for the hieroglyph to appear as it does. Evidence for ancient advanced technology and scientific knowledge is seemingly endless. Did you know that if the Great Pyramid at Giza was built in the two-decade span that Egyptian historical records claim, they would have had to cut, quarry, transport and hoist into place, one block every NINE SECONDS! There are over 2 million limestone and granite blocks in the great Pyramid, some weighing upwards of a hundred tons! Are you telling me, that you actually believe the ancient Egyptians could have pulled that off, using only boats, ropes, chisels, ramps and manpower? One block cut, quarried transported and set into place, every nine seconds???

    Before I sign off, allow me to reiterate that I’ve done my homework about the india nuclear blast

  58. Eric Marks Says:

    Here is an excerpt from one scientific journal article that deals with evidence relating to an ancient nuclear explosion.

    A Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times?

    by Richard B.Firestone and William Topping

    Terrestrial Evidence of a Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times
    The Mammoth Trumpet, 16:9, March 2001. Cr. C. Davant III.

    This off-mainstream journal is published by the Center for the Study of the First Americans, 355 Weniger Hall, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331-6510.

    Introduction

    We introduce here a remarkable theory of terrestrial catastrophism that seems to be supported by evidence that is equally remarkable. One of the authors of this theory (RBF) is identified as a nuclear scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley Nuclear Laboratory.

    The second author (WT) is a consultant. The authors’ credentials seem so good that we must take a close look at their extraordinary claims concerning a natural phenomenon that they believe reset radiocarbon clocks in north-central North America and – potentially – elsewhere on the planet.

    The claims

    In the authors’ words: Our research indicates that the entire Great Lakes region (and beyond) was subjected to particle bombardment and a catastrophic nuclear irradiation that produced secondary thermal neutrons from cosmic ray interactions. The neutrons produced unusually large quantities of ^239 Pu and substantially altered the natural uranium abundances (^235 U/^238 U) in artifacts and in other exposed materials including cherts, sediments, and the entire landscape.

    These neutrons necessarily transmuted residual nitrogen (^ N) in the dated charcoals to radiocarbon, thus explaining anomalous dates. Some North American dates may in consequence be as much as 10,000 years too young. So, we are not dealing with a trivial phenomenon!

    Supporting evidence
    Four main categories of supporting evidence are claimed and presented in varying degrees of detail.

    Anomalously young radiocarbon dates in north-central North America. Example: the Gainey site in Michigan. [Other map sites include Thedford & Zander, Ont.; Potts, NY; Shoop, Penn.; Alton, Ind.; Taylor, Il.; Butler & Leavitt, Mich.; and far to the north Grant Lake, Nunavut; and in the far southwest Baker, N.M. - TWC]

    Physical evidence of particle bombardment. Example: chert artifacts with high densities of particle-entrance wounds

    Anomalous uranium and plutonium abundance ratios in the affected area

    Tree-ring and marine sediment data

    The authors claim that the burst of radiation from a nearby supernova, circa 12,500 years ago, not only reset radiocarbon clocks but also heated the planet’s atmosphere, melted ice sheets, and led to biological extinctions. If verified, the claimed phenomenon would also “reset” archeological models of the settlement of North and South America. To illustrate, we may have to add as many as 10,000 years to site dates in much of North America!

    How is this for documentation???

  59. DivineInterllect Says:

    Good day Twit

    I would add that we give very little credit to our ancients. Whether or not there were ancient aliens (as mentioned on here) remains debatable, even though much evidence points to it. Say there weren’t, how would we explain certain achievements? I would fully agree with Eric Mark’s presentation and would add the following.

    Lets take Puma Punka – Tiahuanacu. How did ancient man accomplish this?
    The Tiahuanacu (also called Tiwanaku) civilization developed an extensive infrastructure with a complex irrigation system running over 30 square miles. I don’t think they built these megalithic marvels to farm corn and veggies. Who were the people of this lost civilization? What inspired their intellect that baffles our modern engineering minds? This ancient race seems to challenge our intellectual scale in evolution. What does that say about our belief in evolution or our assumptions that ancient man was less evolved?
    Is it possible that stone tools carved these structures? Logically impossible! The remains of a lost civilization remain a mystery.

    A brief technicality
    The structure known as the Puma Punka astonishes imagination. One of the construction blocks weighs an estimated 440 tons (equal to nearly 600 full-size cars) and several other blocks are between 100 and 150 tons. The quarry for these gigantic blocks is situated on the western shore of Titicaca, about ten miles away. There is no known technology in the ancient Andean world that could have transported stones of such substantial weight and size. Is it possible the Andean people of 500 AD could have moved them with their reed boats?

    We know today we require modern advanced transportation systems to transport Boeing’s airplane parts around the globe and once it arrives we require overhead cranes within the factory. Dubai too is one good example of modern engineering and construction. It takes teams of professionals to complete tasks. Advanced engineering, mathematics, planners, architects and on the professional scale we go, yet still encounter challenges. Could we fashion the Puma Punka blocks and structures today? The closest we’ve got to build such interlocking lego-like ‘concrete’ structures are bridges and dam walls however! The difference being they did this in solid stone and not formed concrete in a mould. Can we achieve this out of stone? Certainly! BUT what would it take?
    The Puma Punku ruins are said to be the most fascinating, most bewildering of all archaeological study. These structures defy logic, bearing in mind, our view on ancient man.
    Look at Pics and references and pay close attention and offer your view. I’m interested.
    http://hubpages.com/slide/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco/893262

    http://hubpages.com/slide/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco/893267

    Note the detail of the holes (see link below). How could ancient man drill neat holes through the entire block with primitive tools?
    http://hubpages.com/slide/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco/893273

    Note the groove running vertically. The pic is not as clear here but 1cm wide groove with inside a set of equidistant holes. Fascinating especially since it would take modern engineering to complete this task. In fact it would require cnc milling machines to achieve such accuracy. More importantly it requires diamond tipped cutting equipment to cut stone with a constant flow of water to cool tips.
    http://hubpages.com/slide/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco/893292

    Note the block’s 3D design. The hole running down and the inset features. If I were to complete this on a block of aluminium, I would need a milling machine and set the model through various stages. However if I had a 5 axis cnc milling machine then it would be possible. It would also mean a computer numeric controlled program. However this is not aluminium that can be pieced in a bench, rather these are heavy stones. What method have our ancients used, without computers (at least we think), to accomplish such marvels? Where are there tools? I highly doubt it was stone tools and more interesting is how they lifted such heavy structures. There’s no evidence of cranes, which we would use today. How did they do this?

    You probably wondering what this ‘site’ has to do with your point. If you consider that these accomplishments (by ancient man) occurred in our history than it would not be IMPOSSIBLE for atomic like bombs to exist. If they had technology to achieve megalithic structures, that logic would tell us took massive advanced machines, then they had knowledge unknown to us now. We can hardly replicate there constructions.
    Off-course if we want to consider their achievements, then consider how the people of Match Picchu managed to ‘soften’ or perhaps even melt rock to fit so snug together as if it was molded. Even a razor blade cannot squeeze in.

    Getting back to atomic blasts – check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QsgY115EFc
    Something atomic happened in Sodom and Gomorrah. Michael Rood points out his theory however I must mention I don’t subscribe to the “GOD did it” theory. Albeit not religious I do acknowledge all scriptures as fantastic history books. These boons purport events that can ‘now’ be studied archeologically and! LOGICALLY.

    Personally my view is that there was a global atomic destruction causing certain areas catastrophic floods around 17500yrs ago consequently affecting Egypt – the whole Saharan region, Namibia extending into part of South Africa, Middle Eastern region extending through Asia, the Indus region and Lower Europe, part of South and North America as well. These destructions were due faction wars over mining territories and genetically manipulating early mankind to achieve those goals. This was the period when our two natural moons were destroyed.
    Approximately 5500yrs later another deluge occurred when our new moon was brought here. It was this that caused another some of these ancient sites to be hidden beneath soil.
    It was 5735yrs ago that a new civilization began of which again were product of genetic manipulation occurred. Around 1900yrs ago all intervention were guarded against and still is to date ensuring safe conscious evolution. Off-course I have my own researched evidence that satisfies me. Nonetheless this is not the discussion here.

    We exist in a spectacular time that can almost relate to what our ancients endeavoured communicating in posterity, the best way they knew how, and! keeping an open mind, without wanting to disprove their writings or accusing them of wild imaginings, we’d be better off. Better off in ways that we could learn from their inability to curtail their inevitable demise wrought by avarice. It should be a lesson for our disunited societies, is what I think. Are we not heading in that very direction?

    We can argue and ineffectively deny the historical events as to how they occurred however. Evidently the unearthed sites are substantial evidence that something catastrophically ended a great population throughout earth, more than once, be it a deluge or atomic warfare. The essences of these legends remain clear in that it speaks to our consciousness. Are we going to unconsciously repeat history or are we going to awaken being the real focus?

    BTW this is a good discussion :-)

    • Belief Is Not Proof Says:

      “I would add that we give very little credit to our ancients. Whether or not there were ancient aliens (as mentioned on here) remains debatable, even though much evidence points to it. Say there weren’t, how would we explain certain achievements?”

      Well we could explain them by the fact that humans are an ingenious species, far more inventive than you seem to give them credit for. People who believe that the only way humans could have achieved certain inventions in the past is by the proxy of “ancient astronauts” seem to have very little faith in their own species ability to invent and create.

      We know for certain that humans are very gifted in being able to lie and create stories that have no basis in truth, regardless of facts. Just because we do not understand how certain structures was built or a certain an invention was made does not automatically lead to some theory of ancient astronauts being the “only” explanation.

      If you see a stage magician perform a trick that seems to defy logic do you automatically assume that he must have help from aliens or fairies or something?

  60. DivineInterllect Says:

    OOPS!!! excuse my typos and some grammatical errors :-)

  61. Belief Is Not Proof Says:

    Twit, I would like to thank you for this article. This is the only treatment of this subject I have found so far that is in any way reasonable.

    Its amazing and a bit shocking that so many people have such an emotional response to this. I guess people have a tendency to believe in whatever they want to believe in, regardless of the facts or lack thereof.

    Hopefully in the future mankind will forget this internet misinformation nonsense and concentrate upon the real questions surrounding the Indus Valley Culture. How did they achieve such a level of advancement considering they were one of the first literate cultures we are aware of? The advancements are not nuclear of course, but in the realm of things like sewer systems, city planning and artistic achievement, which indeed were far ahead of the time. I think the Indus Valley Culture is still quite a mystery even without the crackpot conspiracy theories. The continual propagation of the lies regarding a nuclear incident in ancient times only detracts and dishonours the actual mysteries and achievements of this culture.

    There are certainly mysteries to be uncovered here but clouding the issue with this ancient nuclear nonsense just disseminates more ignorance. For you people who want to believe, where is your scientific proof? I have read all response to this article and yet no one has provided any true refutation or any real evidence WHATSOEVER to support the crackpot theory of a nuclear detonation in ancient times in the Indus Valley.

    • DivineInterllect Says:

      “I think the Indus Valley Culture is still quite a mystery even without the crackpot conspiracy theories”

      Its a paradox to admit it being a mystery and refer to theorists as crackpots. Wouldn’t you agree?

      • Shaun Says:

        You seem to have a very warped view and understanding of science. Science does not reject mysteries, but accepts that there are many things we don’t understand and it seeks to investigate them. It does not make wild claims and then manipulate evidence to suit those claims.

        Belief Is Not Proof did not claim that all theorists are crackpots, simply the fanciful conspiracy theorists who seek to sensationalize and create conspiracies where there are none.

        The study of evolution would be a good parallel. Till some centuries ago it evolution was simply a theory, but it was founded on limited evidence, and with the accumulation of evidence it is now quite clear to anyone with a brain that evolution is not just a theory. On the other hand the theory that we were magically created by some higher power would be a crackpot theory with no plausible evidence. Pseudo scientists and creationists off course try their best to manipulate evidence to give their ‘crackpot theories’ a scientific angle.

        There is probably no point in arguing with you as you probably subscribe to beliefs that fly in the face of evidence and very likely deny evolution.

  62. Shaun Says:

    Firstly, in response to Erik Marks, I’d like to point out that the History Channel is owned by Fox Network, so there really is little credible educational history that can be derived from viewing nonsensical TV series like ‘Ancient Aliens’ on that network that sensationalize the claims of a known fraud – “von Däniken has knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery “depicting UFOs”, supposedly from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and even located the potter who made them. When confronted with this evidence, von Däniken argued that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw actual proof.”

    Any education derived from the idiot box and the internet is in itself suspect, because of the ease with which such information can be twisted and tampered with. This said, some sources may be more reliable than others, but the history channel and a silly sensationalized series like ‘Ancient Aliens’ does not fit in to this category. In addition, manipulating evidence and using wild speculation to theorize does not qualify as scientific.

    With regard to your so called proof, it is really worth little, since most of it stems from unreliable and unverifiable sources. The only places with information or any references to the claims are on creationist and other pseudo science websites. All of these sources are simply interested in furthering their own agenda and world view, not in a scientific investigation and pursuit of truth.

    • DivineInterllect Says:

      Hi Shaun

      Your point that History channel is not credible but that PBS television series Nova is, could be argued against too. You further state:

      “Any education derived from the idiot box and the internet is in itself suspect, because of the ease with which such information can be twisted and tampered with.”

      This could imply that PBS television should not be trusted as well. So as far as “unreliable and unverifiable sources” leaves me and other reading this very little interest to trust ‘your’ so called ‘fraud’ theory of Erik Von Daniken. One simply cannot make a claim against internet and tele yet rely on it for info that suits perhaps ‘your’ agenda. at least so it appears.

      As for science having to verify theories.
      science itself is based on theories that over time re-invent new theories if the older was able to empirically verify it. Science is not sacrosanct, period. And! if it allowed theories of this kind to be investigated/researched, with its current limited technology, then perhaps we’d have real answers. But No! most mainstream scientists and mainstream archeologist lack an obvious amount of common sense, especially! when they arrive at ‘their’ analogies that it took ropes, primitive leverage, stone tools and many slaves to build the pyramids or puma punka ruins. Yet, knowingly to date, with all our current technology, it cannot be reproduced without advanced engineering. Why should we trust ‘their’ theories over so called pseudo-dudes? Who’s the real pseudo when it comes to theories, we should ask ourselves.

      It would be wise if you posted links that disprove Erik von Daniken, so the readers can learn or reject.

      Thanks

      • Shaun Says:

        QUOTE: “Your point that History channel is not credible but that PBS television series Nova is, could be argued against too. You further state:

        “Any education derived from the idiot box and the internet is in itself suspect, because of the ease with which such information can be twisted and tampered with.”

        An intelligent informed individual can clearly discern between a reliable source and one that indulges in sensationalism and fantasy, espousing pseudo scientific theories that simply aim to further their fantastic world view. This means that evidence is postulated to fit the end view, and the end view is not shaped on the evidence. This is what makes the ‘theories’ of some pseudo science, while those from the likes of Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins are actually scientific.

        QUOTE: “This could imply that PBS television should not be trusted as well. So as far as “unreliable and unverifiable sources” leaves me and other reading this very little interest to trust ‘your’ so called ‘fraud’ theory of Erik Von Daniken. One simply cannot make a claim against internet and tele yet rely on it for info that suits perhaps ‘your’ agenda. at least so it appears.”

        Here’s a reliable source, and if you wish to research it further there are plenty of reference links and actual libraries and institutes to research the subject.

        Däniken claimed that a non-rusting iron pillar in India was evidence of extraterrestrial influence.[8] Later, Däniken admitted in a Playboy interview that the pillar was rusty and man-made, and that as far as supporting his hypotheses goes “we can forget about this iron thing.”

        Some also question von Däniken’s credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery “depicting UFOs”, supposedly from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and even located the potter who made them. When confronted with this evidence, von Däniken argued that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw actual proof.

        And yes, only a gullible fool would believe that a conman would confess to a crime he did not commit, and thereby accuse PBS of faking evidence or being unreliable.

        The source of this condensed information on his fraud:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken

        Some more factual information and articles with verifiable reputed references:
        http://www.skepdic.com/vondanik.html
        http://www.poffysmoviemania.com/AncientAliens.html

        Your last paragraph of ranting does not warrant any comments. They are the rantings of a frustrated man who is easily misled by unscrupulous pseudo scientists and pseudo historians who like to propagate their lopsided world views and fatten their pockets. Every single notable discovery and invention that has been made owes to science. I would suppose that you, a gullible ill informed idiot, who believes the likes of Daniken, and actually believes that the fraud is innocent and yet mysteriously admitted his guilt, think you have more common sense than renowned scientists who have dedicated their lives to the pursuit of truth.

    • DivineInterllect Says:

      Lets see, you state that science does not make wild claims and then manipulate….

      “It does not make wild claims and then manipulate evidence to suit those claims.”
      and
      “Pseudo scientists and creationists off course try their best to manipulate evidence to give their ‘crackpot theories’ a scientific angle.”

      If you going to make such BOLD statements then you need to be certain that science scientist is free from ‘manipulating’ evidence. At least so called evidence. And! they should be free of wild theories. How would you categorize the Piltdown man hoax. read more if you will:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

      This would fit well with evolution ‘theory’ that you again BOLDLY claim people with ‘brains’…verbatim:
      “and with the accumulation of evidence it is now quite clear to anyone with a brain that evolution is not just a theory.”

      Regarding evolution, it is still a ‘theory’ and the ever changing evidence and ‘evolving’ theory needs more than it has to date. I do believe that everything evolves as does everything revolve as well, but cannot accept that man shares a common ancestor or that we evolved from simian stock – utter rubbish. I am not even a creationist nor am I religious with a religion and recognize this as a rudimentary theory that requires better, than it has, propositions. Nonetheless this is not the thread to discuss evolution, so perhaps another time or place. My point is that you or any cannot claim or boldly imply that science is the ultimate form to establish truth. Frankly this is how you’ve based your argument.

      Their are very credible engineers, and LOGIC thinking people who offer much evidence through experiments that should be acknowledged. such with the puma punka ruins, the pyramids etc. They are openly claiming that it requires advanced engineering and advanced thinking and project planning to accomplish these unearthed finds. Mainstream archeologists again claim that stone tools pulled this off.
      Tell me, as a logical thinker, which of the 2 are crackpots?
      Which of the 2 should hold the title pseudo?

      I am not the one with a warped view on science here.

      • Shaun Says:

        Your understanding of science and archeology is clearly warped.
        Which mainstream archeologists exactly claim that stone tools alone were used to pull off the engineering feats that many ancient civilizations accomplished.
        Most of these ancient civilizations were not some primitive stone and stick wielding peoples that you and the fraudulent pseudo scientists claim portray them to be. Most of these civilizations were well adapted to the technological limits of their time but pushed the limits of their limited technology with innovation. As many other archeologists and non-fanciful documentaries have explored these possibilities and their theories are not as ridiculous as you like to accuse them of being.
        For example, observing contemporary stone age peoples in Papua New Guinea, where huge stones are still found on top of tombs, has taught us how the ancients may have accomplished the same thing with little more than ropes of organic material, wooden levers and shovels, a little ingenuity and a good deal of human strength.
        Nova’s “Secrets of Lost Empires” gives us good insight into how the ancient Egyptians might have raised a giant obelisk, how the medieval warriors built their catapults and how & why the sculptors of Easter Island did what they did.

        If you prefer sensationalism and cannot accept the possibility that our ancestors and that some of the so called lesser peoples built the monuments they did, then be my guest and continue to discredit their genius by attributing their achievements to visitations from aliens and other such nonsense.

        As regards Piltdown man, it was scientists who exposed it as forgery, and the fraud was committed not by the scientific community, but by an individual, who did it not to further any scientific theory but for profit. The weight of authentic fossil evidence that has been investigated in subsequent years has solidified the theory of evolution and it is not just a theory. The Piltdown man has no bearing on the theory itself and was exposed as a fraud by scientists, so there is no “wild theory” as you claim that stemmed from the piltdown man.

        Your statements simply reveal a lack of basic knowledge about history, archeology and science and simply expose your fascination with fringe scientists and archeologists who rely on sensationalism to earn a living.

        As regards your request for references, I have already posted them, but my comment awaits moderation.

    • DivineInterllect Says:

      Shaun, could you kindly point out the link(s) that disproved Erik von Daniken’s finds. It would make you point stronger (or weaker) if you could share this with us, thanks

    • DivineInterllect Says:

      You are far off my friend – I am no where near warped. Read my first post on our ancients.

      You claim
      “Most of these civilizations were well adapted to the technological limits of their time but pushed the limits of their limited technology with innovation.”

      Could you be more specific?
      Tell me, how did they manage it with limited technology when it cannot be duplicated today or at least without modern, very advanced machinery and equipment.

      How did they transport it?
      Google abnormal load transportation.

      How did they lift 440ton blocks?
      Google a 440ton crane so you could have an idea.

      How did they drill equidistant holes in a 3D-like lego-type block?
      Google 5 or 6 axis cnc machines for masonry.

      Did they use reed boats and ropes? Nonsense!
      Your statement proves you not engineering savvy. It takes more than limited technology to pull of some of the finds.

      Again you claiming documentaries when in fact it was ‘you’ that purported the idea that tv should not be trusted. So why use this method to argue when you expect others not too? Please do not dodge this question.

      And!
      We are waiting for your very credible proof that disproves Erik von Daniken’s theory. I will await once the moderation is cleared.

      Yet you ask me who those mainstream dudes are. They all over the net and even speak on AA documentary. Check it out.

      “Your statements simply reveal a lack of basic knowledge about history, archeology and science”

      Oh Really and you happen to no it all??? – try me??? double dare. I know enough to discuss this subject.

      As for evolution, you claim is not a theory. I suggest you start a blog, or wordpress, with all your input and we’ll take it from there. Whatever you’d like to share about evolution, I will answer and post my version and questions. What say you to that? This is not a race or to establish who is better except lets pull out the logic factor and decide if it is or is not a theory.

      • JayP Says:

        Shaun is an idiot. I have met “Indians” like him too often. BC trash who thinks he is white because of his new white religion. Hate Indians much? Do us all a favor and stop calling your self one. Honestly I don’t care about the topic as much as I care about how you are such a hater. Despite poverty and the loss of the glory days of India we have become a fast growing economy since independence. It’s not that Indians think they are superior or they invented everything that makes them say things like they invented Zero or the Pythagorean theorem. They say it because its true and history discredits these achievements and gives all credit to western scholars. It is not an inferiority complex more a matter of principle. Its self haters like you that keep us down as a people. Whats worse is that when people like you are in a position of power they are so brain washed that instead of helping their own people they try everything in their power to keep them down and make them fail. You might have a new religion or no religion at all. You may hate the concept of karma or think its ridiculous but I will go to sleep happy because I know that a person like you is never happy nor do they ever achieve happiness in this life. Just by being such a hater you are showing how entangled you are in this b.s. and how much its getting you down. :)

    • Shane Schuller Says:

      Shaun you not making much sense in your debates

  63. Shaun Says:

    Since you seem to clearly trust wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Daniken

    Hope you find this illuminating and enlightening. I do understand your fascination with the man’s works. They are truly great pieces of fiction, and admit being intrigued by them at first, but that’s all they are.

    Books and journals:
    Bullard, Thomas E. “Ancient Astronauts,” in The Encyclopedia of the Paranormal edited by Gordon Stein (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1996), pp. 25-32.
    Colavito, Jason. (2005). The Cult of Alien Gods – H. P. Lovecraft and Extraterrestrial Pop Culture. Prometheus.
    De Camp, L. Sprague. The Ancient Engineers (New York: Ballantine Books, 1977).
    Fagan, Garrett G. 2006. Archaeological Fantasies: How Pseudoarchaeology Misrepresents the Past and Misleads the Public. Routledge.
    Feder, Kenneth L. Frauds, Mysteries and Myths, 4th ed. (McGraw Hill Co., 2001).
    Story, Ronald. Guardians of the Universe (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1980).
    Story, Ronald. The Space-gods Revealed: a Close Look at the Theories of Erich von Däniken, 2nd ed. (New York: Barnes & Noble, 1976).

    Websites:
    http://www.debunker.com/texts/vondanik.html
    http://csicop.org/sb/2007-03/egypt.html
    http://members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/vondaniken.html
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/alienactivity/nazca3a.html
    http://www.abc.net.au/science/correx/archives/lies.htm
    http://www.skepdic.com/essays/sitchin.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Von_Daniken#Legal_troubles

  64. Shaun Says:

    DivineInterllect, for some reason my links are still not going through, so I’m just going to post the names of the books and websites below. I’ve only gone through a few, but you should find them quite enlightening.

    Since you seem to clearly trust wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Daniken

    Hope you find this illuminating and enlightening. I do understand your fascination with the man’s works. They are truly great pieces of fiction, and I admit being intrigued by them at first, but that’s all they are.

    books and articles:

    Bullard, Thomas E. “Ancient Astronauts,” in The Encyclopedia of the Paranormal edited by Gordon Stein (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1996), pp. 25-32.

    Colavito, Jason. (2005). The Cult of Alien Gods – H. P. Lovecraft and Extraterrestrial Pop Culture. Prometheus.

    De Camp, L. Sprague. The Ancient Engineers (New York: Ballantine Books, 1977).

    Fagan, Garrett G. 2006. Archaeological Fantasies: How Pseudoarchaeology Misrepresents the Past and Misleads the Public. Routledge.

    Feder, Kenneth L. Frauds, Mysteries and Myths, 4th ed. (McGraw Hill Co., 2001).

    Story, Ronald. Guardians of the Universe (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1980).

    Story, Ronald. The Space-gods Revealed: a Close Look at the Theories of Erich von Däniken, 2nd ed. (New York: Barnes & Noble, 1976).

    websites:

    Erich von Daniken’s “Chariots of the Gods?”: Science or Charlatanism? by Robert Sheaffer

    Who Were the Ancient Engineers of Egypt? James Trefil

    The Maya “Astronaut” by Michael Finley

    Nova – Hot Science

    Chariots of Lies

    Sitchin’s Twelfth Planet by Rob Hafernik

  65. Schon Says:

    JayP: “They say it because its true and history discredits these achievements and gives all credit to western scholars.”
    Im not sure what version of history youre familiar with, but western historians do not discredit the achievements of ancient India and they are accepted facts, for example the invention of zero. This is actually something that is accepted as common knowledge. Contributions to mathematics aside, the contributions from ancient India to science, architecture and medicine are undeniable, well accepted and documented. My objections were to a distortion of the past and jingoistic patriotism.
    “BC trash who thinks he is white because of his new white religion. Hate Indians much? Do us all a favor and stop calling your self one.”
    I certainly dont think Im white and Im not sure what religion or culture you’re referring to, cause I subscribe to none. Nationality is not a concept that I invented, and I don’t call myself an Indian by choice.
    “Despite poverty and the loss of the glory days of India we have become a fast growing economy since independence.”
    In case you havent noticed, the benefits of this economic growth are not very evenly distributed and the gap between rich and poor keeps growing. India seems to be becoming just as corporate as Uncle Sam is.
    “Its self haters like you that keep us down as a people. Whats worse is that when people like you are in a position of power they are so brain washed that instead of helping their own people they try everything in their power to keep them down and make them fail.”
    I dont hate myself and I dont hate most people around me. At times I do hate their ignorance and hypocrisy, but not everyone is ignorant or self righteous. I do agree that I do overreact and make exceedingly harsh comments and unwarranted attacks in anger, and I apologize for the same. But I am certainly not brain washed and not intent on keeping ‘my people’ down. Maybe I just dont view the world with such a herd mentality that I see some humans as ‘my people’ or ‘their people’.

    I am quite sure that my actions are more fitting of a citizen than the jingoistic clamor of overzealous patriotic imbeciles who root for their country no matter whether what they are rooting for is right or wrong (this is not peculiar to India and is probably worse in the United States). I pay my taxes and never try to hide my earnings or show investments to avoid taxation, I never litter, I make an effort to keep my surroundings clean and habitable for others, I help those less fortunate than me whenever I can, and I try and spread awareness about our population problems, the AIDs epidemic, environmental issues, and the importance of conservation and preservation of historical monuments. I do believe that this is more than can be said of the average citizen. Let me also add that I do not spit in public, or urnate in public, or create a public nuisance with noisy processions, I do not pay bribes, I do not reproduce irresponsibly, etc, etc. I do not believe that I am patriotic or that I need to prove my patriotism to anyone. Moreover, I dont really believe I need to be loyal to, or blindly agree to a belief system or a political system simply because my parents were born in to that faith or nationality. I make my choices based on moral principles and although my opinions and decisions may at times be colored by prejudices, I try to avoid these as much as possible.
    I really dont have any trouble sleeping at night and I do feel quite good about myself and life in general, but thanks for your concern. As regards the achievement of happiness, yes I do give this great importance and am extremely happy with my life. I make it a point to live my life to the fullest, cause I believe it is the only one I have and I have to make it worth it.
    Im not sure about what you believe and I dont really care what everyone else believes in, I just have a problem with beliefs being passed off as history or science.

  66. Schon Says:

    JayP: “They say it because its true and history discredits these achievements and gives all credit to western scholars.”
    Im not sure what version of history youre familiar with, but western historians do not discredit the achievements of ancient India and they are accepted facts, for example the invention of zero. This is actually something that is accepted as common knowledge. Contributions to mathematics aside, the contributions from ancient India to science, architecture and medicine are undeniable, well accepted and documented. My objections were to a distortion of the past and jingoistic patriotism.
    “BC trash who thinks he is white because of his new white religion. Hate Indians much? Do us all a favor and stop calling your self one.”
    I certainly dont think Im white and Im not sure what religion or culture you’re referring to, cause I subscribe to none. Nationality is not a concept that I invented, and I don’t call myself an Indian by choice.
    “Despite poverty and the loss of the glory days of India we have become a fast growing economy since independence.”
    In case you havent noticed, the benefits of this economic growth are not very evenly distributed and the gap between rich and poor keeps growing. India seems to be becoming just as corporate as Uncle Sam is.
    “Its self haters like you that keep us down as a people. Whats worse is that when people like you are in a position of power they are so brain washed that instead of helping their own people they try everything in their power to keep them down and make them fail.”
    I dont hate myself and I dont hate most people around me. At times I do hate their ignorance and hypocrisy, but not everyone is ignorant or self righteous. I do agree that I do overreact and make exceedingly harsh comments and unwarranted attacks in anger, and I apologize for the same. But I am certainly not brain washed and not intent on keeping ‘my people’ down. Maybe I just dont view the world with such a herd mentality that I see some humans as ‘my people’ or ‘their people’.

  67. Schon Says:

    I am quite sure that my actions are more fitting of a citizen than the jingoistic clamor of overzealous patriotic imbeciles who root for their country no matter whether what they are rooting for is right or wrong (this is not peculiar to India and is probably worse in the United States). I pay my taxes and never try to hide my earnings or show investments to avoid taxation, I never litter, I make an effort to keep my surroundings clean and habitable for others, I help those less fortunate than me whenever I can, and I try and spread awareness about our population problems, the AIDs epidemic, environmental issues, and the importance of conservation and preservation of historical monuments. I do believe that this is more than can be said of the average citizen. Let me also add that I do not spit in public, or urnate in public, or create a public nuisance with noisy processions, I do not pay bribes, I do not reproduce irresponsibly, etc, etc. I do not believe that I am patriotic or that I need to prove my patriotism to anyone. Moreover, I dont really believe I need to be loyal to, or blindly agree to a belief system or a political system simply because my parents were born in to that faith or nationality. I make my choices based on moral principles and although my opinions and decisions may at times be colored by prejudices, I try to avoid these as much as possible.
    I really dont have any trouble sleeping at night and I do feel quite good about myself and life in general, but thanks for your concern. As regards the achievement of happiness, yes I do give this great importance and am extremely happy with my life. I make it a point to live my life to the fullest, cause I believe it is the only one I have and I have to make it worth it.
    Im not sure about what you believe and I dont really care what everyone else believes in, I just have a problem with beliefs being passed off as history or science.

  68. Schon Says:

    I am quite sure that my actions are more fitting of a citizen than the jingoistic clamor of overzealous patriotic imbeciles who root for their country no matter whether what they are rooting for is right or wrong (this is not peculiar to India and is probably worse in the United States). I pay my taxes and never try to hide my earnings or show investments to avoid taxation, I never litter, I make an effort to keep my surroundings clean and habitable for others, I help those less fortunate than me whenever I can, and I try and spread awareness about our population problems, the AIDs epidemic, environmental issues, and the importance of conservation and preservation of historical monuments. I do believe that this is more than can be said of the average citizen. Let me also add that I do not spit in public, or urnate in public, or create a public nuisance with noisy processions, I do not pay bribes, I do not reproduce irresponsibly, etc, etc. I do not believe that I am patriotic or that I need to prove my patriotism to anyone. Moreover, I dont really believe I need to be loyal to, or blindly agree to a belief system or a political system simply because my parents were born in to that faith or nationality. I make my choices based on moral principles and although my opinions and decisions may at times be colored by prejudices, I try to avoid these as much as possible.

  69. Shaun Says:

    I really dont have any trouble sleeping at night and I do feel quite good about myself and life in general, but thanks for your concern. As regards the achievement of happiness, yes I do give this great importance and am extremely happy with my life. I make it a point to live my life to the fullest, cause I believe it is the only one I have and I have to make it worth it.
    Im not sure about what you believe and I dont really care what everyone else believes in, I just have a problem with beliefs being passed off as history or science.

  70. funny Says:

    Some times we become victims of our own knowledge. We see and understand this world as it has been taught to us. Our knowledge is based on our experience and experience of 2-3 generations behind us. We assume many things and try to solve what we don’t know from the lens of what we know. Today we believe that we have 5 senses (or 6) and we know about forms of energy that we experience in our daily life. But assume for a moment that there might be other forms of energy that we do not know. For example, I sincerely believe that we still have limited knowledge our our brain and how it makes us what we are. We all know that our brain has powers which is not fully understood even to this day. We experience this in many undeniable way. 6th sense, intution, placebo effects etc. are all examples of brain power and what it can. May be through ages, we have forgot to channel an unknown power (source to alternative energy) that we can if we know how from our brain. The fact that we are only able to use just a limited portion of our brain is hard to explain. Evolution, even though not perfect all the time, does reflect and gives importance to things that we need and is often efficient. Why do we have more brain mass, if we just use only a limited portion of it. The theory that I am driving towards is that may be in ancient times, we were more equipped to use a wider portion of our brain and were able to harness some other form of energy that we have forgotten now. The theory is not without merits. There has been limited evidence of this power (even though at very minute scale) that we often hear news about. We know of Tibetan monks who can meditate and raise their body temperatures, we know of people who can read a person, and we know about people who can use a subtle form of energy like that of sound through their vocal chords to so amazing things. One of the biggest reference to earlier texts from ancient times are references to “mantras”. A particular syllabull of words that has to be uttered with a particular pitch and variation to make things happen. Even to this day, this is practices in many Indian religious events, even though it is more symbolic now. May be there was a way for ancient people who may have used sound and mind energy combination in unique way to create matter and anti matter. The theory is not at all rubbish. If we think about how matter came to existence, the firm opinion is that some form of energy gets transformed into matter. Even Einstein’s formula e=mc square proves that matter can be formed if energy is channelized. This is the formula of release of atomic energy when mass is destroyed. So there are many possibilities of ancient people who may not be well versed to technology innovations that we have today, but entirely possible that they may have had access to other energy forms that we do not know about yet.

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  74. Deepak Bisht-earth Says:

    wow i don’t believe it very good work keep it up

  75. Janko Says:

    First of all: no, there’s no evidence of plain Homo Sapiens evolution. Yes, there is evidence about evolution of many other species, also humanoid – like Homo Erectus, but not for Homo Sapiens. And, yes.. modern human genome tells us, that there are some strange things in our history (especially history of the modern human DNA, which apparently has some parts not corresponding with anything what we can find in DNA of any other species on the Earth).

    Last but not least – who told you, that any potential mass-destruction weapons were used here by… humans?

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  77. Ik Says:

    If this level of evidence was presented to support the single shooter theory (JFK) the true believers would be laughing long and hard.

    The throwing out of the “reasonable test” shows we have departed from the path of rational thought.

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  79. kevin Says:

    i know this blog is old, but i thought id throw this idea out there. what if modern day nuclear blasts had some sort of bleed over effect in the timeline, causing phenomenon to occur in our past, such as a blast occurring here and in the past simultaneously. if we can have a sub atomic particle be in two places at the same time, why not the same place in different times. or yet another out there idea i had. what about blasts in a parallel universe bleeding over to ours. if you subscribe to the multiverse theory, a parallel earth, where humans also developed, possibly more rapidly than in ours?

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  81. ramesh mudgal Says:

    I just simply believe that Mahabharata and Ramayana proves the knowledge of your so called nuclear weapons. When u find ancient Dwaranka of lord Krishna under the Sea at Gujarat bay. It proves the above fact to the world.

    • Vinit Gupta Says:

      @ ramesh mudgal: The ancient Dwaraka has already been found. Wikipedia answers your question with answers related to your queries.

  82. Indian guy Says:

    Wow. I can’t believe the emotional and theoretical arguments in this blog without any basis in fact. I think that Twit is simply saying the “evidence” that is used to “prove” that a nuclear event happened in ancient India is flawed and has little backing,,,and even that backing doesn’t come from credible sources. If someone can produce credible evidence and references to rebut Twit’s claims, please do so. The emotional arguments agains his article and the moral judgements of Twit are really quite juvenile.

    Most of the arguments against original article are emotional conjecture and sensational theorization. If someone really wants to refute Twit’s assertions, please use verfiable facts and data. If you don’t, you look like religious/conspiracy-theory fanatics who believe something simply because you want to, not because you are discerning adults,

    Twit is not asserting that the ancients didn’t do some amazing things…and I see no evidence in any of his statements that he is anti-Indian. I am Indian myself and actually VERY sensitive to prejudice. I sense none from Twit. He is just balking at a theory that has a very poor fact base supporting it.

    If one uses the argument that the description of a weapon or event means it is true, then one must accept that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, remained inside the whale for three days and then was deposited on a beach near Nineveh. Also one must accept that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. I am not saying that the Jonah event or the deity of Christ are true or false. I am just saying that you cannot be selective about what you say must be true because someone said it, wrote it down, or thought of it. Just because the human mind can think of something doesn’t mean it must be true. Something is not true until it is proven false either – otherwise prove to me that there are no unicorns in the world, prove to that I am not the only sentient being is the world and that you are not creations of my mind – both are illogical statements. Just because I can imagine them doesn’t make them true.

    Just because Twit cannot explain something or provide an alternative hypothesis, doesn’t mean his points about the suspect nature of the “facts” that he reviewed is false

    I suspect that I will get some hate mail…so be it, but unless the authors of any criticism of what I have written can actually provide verfiable evidence or a reasonable, logical argument, I will chuckle and think they are silly. On the other hand, if someone has verifiable evidence to refute Twit’s claims and/or a logical argument against what I have written, I would invite a response.

    Thanks Twit for a logical evidence-based presentation.

    Cheers

    • Master Mind Says:

      if u r an Indian better commit suicide today itself by jumping into a gutter …

      • Shaun DMello Says:

        Yes, because him killing himself, would leave the country with citizens like you, and correspondingly, a lot more open gutters.

    • Tony Lyle Says:

      he’s not “balking at a theory that has a very poor fact base supporting it.” He is unequivocally saying that it didn’t happen, which is MUCH more foolish then the theory itself.

      • Shaun DMello Says:

        You clearly dont understand what empirical evidence is.

        If I claim to have found a cure for AIDs or to have discovered an ancient laser gun, the onus is on me to present evidence to support my claims failing which my claims should rightfully be dismissed as lies or fiction.

  83. Truth Says:

    Ramayana and Mahabharata talk about various weapons which could produce Rain, Strom, Lighting, etc. Besides there is a mention of weapon similar to cluster bomb, Fire bomb, Chemical bombs, etc. Even to imagine all these weapons thousands of years ago would be a big achievement. Best of all all these weapons are technologically or at least theoretically possible today.

    Then there was one very powerful weapon which was capable of destroying everything or even the strongest of the warrior and even the whole world. Very few warriors knew the technique to use this weapon or even had such a weapon. this weapon was called Bhramastra. Its just because of the invincibility of this weapon, today its interpreted as Nuclear weapon. Nuke is the stronges weapon we know as of now. However the Bhramastra could have been even something more powerful that nuclear weapon. It is mentioned in Maharabharat that Two of such Bhramastra if fired simultaneously could destroy the whole world.

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  85. Theorymaster Says:

    “Samva actually brought forth an iron bolt through which all the individuals in the race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas became consumed into ashes.”

    Hmmmz, that sounds like a nuclear blast to me. What else do you know that could turn people or any matter into instant ashes instantly? Have you ever tried to burn a body or animal to eat, trust me it doesn’t instantly turn to ash.

    Your ability to interpret and think outside the box is weak, that statement up there “could” of been nuclear as that’s the only kind of energy I know of that could turn any living or non living thing into ashes in an instantly.

    Also people from that era would not have written something they didnt’ see, to them a nuclear blast would of been an act of god wrath and anger, because they had no technical reference to describe what they saw. For all intensive purposes that could of happened, you and I weren’t there, however that desciption depicts a nuclear blast of some kind.

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  87. Biro Says:

    Do you think that’s why the US are trying to gain control of India and Asia, because of its real history and possible potential.!?

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  89. Master Mind Says:

    Indians are Indians and they are father of all the bloody fools in US & UK .. so better keep your stolen ideas in your own country …
    We run on technology by more then 10,000 years in advance as compared to you people …

    • Shaun DMello Says:

      Yet the use of urinals remains too technologically challenging to average Indian man!

      • calypsewalker Says:

        Shaun, you have been on this for a wee bit too long! unless you have an agenda of your own, I am not sure if science can explain your persistent presence here!

        I would not comment about this article as it is contentious and not credible. The author refutes a claim saying there is no proof something happened but in return DOES NOT provide a proof that actually prooves it did not happen – highly detrimental to ‘science’ and laughable as he thinks the original claim is.. But if you are an Indian like you claim, haven’t you seen how secular our government acts to preserve their vote banks? That could be a reason for a lack of enthusiasm in pursuing our past because ancient India aka Bharat is Hindu, like it or hate it and you will not be successful in your Christian or any other religion propaganda behind the veil of Science..

        Best.

      • calypsewalker Says:

        About lack of urinals, yes. We are poor but remember we are the same people who used an enclosed bathroom in 3000BC when your brothers and sisters in the Americas and a large part of UK defecated in open. Yes, we shit in public because the wealth that could have been used to construct bathrooms and lavatories has been looted by centuries of Islamic conquest to Central Asia and/or wars. You will do better if you read more about that – how cities were plundered for months on end. I fail to see how you attack us Indians on something we are proud of – our past. Does that help your faith?

      • Shaun DMello Says:

        I’m still here, because I still receive email alerts… I guess my name led you to the conclusion that I am a Christian but if the church had its way I would have been burnt at the stake or been killed off by the inquisitiion like the thousands of Hindus in medieval Goa. As hard as it may be for a religious nutbag to grasp I do not have a faith and because my parents subscribed to a particular warped world view I did not inherit the same belief. Faith in itself is the root of all evil – it necessitates the rejection of science for implausible irrational explanations.

        Yes colonialism and imperialism are evil and they did strip a lot of Asian and African nations of their wealth, but lets stop crying about the past and examin the present. Most present day problems have little to do with our colonial past.

        As regards the Muslims and Islamic conquest please get your history right. Islamic terrorism poses one of the greatest threats today – making the case against religion – the religion with the most religious followers is obviously the greatest threat, the next two greatest threats being the other 2 monotheistic religions. In the context of the past, Islamic conquest did not strip the land of its wealth infact the Mughal Empire brought prosperity to the subcontinent and it helped retain this prosperity for centuries. Our perception of the Mughal dynasty today is unfortunately colored by our modern threat of Islamic terrorism. Try not to mix up the two…

  90. Vinay Says:

    Happy to read this article. It solved a lot of my questions.
    I am from India and I am really sick of people who make extra ordinary claims without any valid supporting proof.

  91. Thirugnanam Says:

    the translation of “gigantic messenger of death” refers to what westerners know as amanita muscaria (death cap). this was the main ingredient in soma, as it heightened consciousness and brought enlightenment on death and the message of the immortal soul. the text referred to something that physically looked like a gigantic version of it.

  92. Mike Says:

    Mike Says, you are wrong. The indians did have nuclear understanding. way before the western world. The axis of the Earth
    is off it’s orriginal position. That is what caused the Antedeluvian destruction. Those guys back then with their nuclear understanding
    shifted the Axis. Mohenjo Daro and the rest of them were all destroyed.

  93. Tony Lyle Says:

    All I know; is when I read the articles that are supportive of this idea, they are well thought out OPEN MINDED articles. I have never read one that makes blatant statements of fact like this incredibly arrogant author. The only facts about what happened 7,000 years ago is that there are no facts. There is only evidence. IMHO there is enough evidence to suggest that ancient nuclear war is possible. To say that it is impossible, as a blanket statement, is mind bogglingly ignorant and closed minded. FYI, I believe that ancient nuclear war is incredibly unlikely from having actually happened. However; given statements A.)ancient nuclear war is impossible B.)ancient nuclear was is highly likely, you would have to not have a grasp on reality to think the first statement is more true.

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  100. Atomic Explosion Mahabharata Harappa Evidence. | Ramani's blog Says:

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  101. darweevanilla Says:

    Sounds like the modern day neutron bomb concept where all life forms are destroyed but buildings and structures remain intact.

  102. sushi Says:

    A lil advice … as per mahabharata the war happened in “kuru” or kurukshetra (present day rajasthan and pak border region) that means in between harappa and mohenjodaro… now i know most of u would like to believe what u r told …but just a thought: what if humans have been developing nuke then waging wars, dying … continuosly for ages now…. we transitioned to digital age some… i guess 30 years ago(approx.)… and the modern “thinking” human walks the earth since 65000years ….just a thought

  103. dumbf#¢k Says:

    As the empires rise and fall
    its their fame that kills them all
    For those who think they have gone real high
    Will fall to ground n never touch the sky
    Remember your past focus task at hand
    Or your future wont be so grand
    Every civilisation has its day
    It all goes down, it wont help if u pray
    Then it was indus valley
    Let’s see this democracy
    Afterall its all humanity’s fall
    Since u don’t already see
    i just wasted time of y’all
    It all was joke u f#¢k yrselves for free

    Author is a indian national freelance poet (jobless)
    My belief:
    You see …i believe ..something that doesn’t kill u makes u SMARTER …;)

  104. ATOMIC EXPLOSION DURING MAHABHARAT ERA IN BHARAT | HINDUISM SANSKRIT Says:

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  105. dholbeat Says:

    Interesting Information I love to explore around web. A Similar Article briefing the development of Physics in Ancient India and Rest of the world is here: http://goo.gl/nfEtUP

  106. Dharesatharen Chetty Says:

    History always repeats itself. There were no religion but various belief systems. Nuclear bombs 5000yrs or 79years ago has thought has nothing about being one happy family filled with love and sincerity. All our accomplishments were accomplished many millenniums ago but before we reach their feats we must learn to love and serve all. Basic message , we will go beyond the earlier civilizations if we are united in diversity.

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  108. Quora Says:

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  109. Chloe Says:

    I think my favorite part of this discussion was all the hate for each other lol: Crackpots, idiots, etc, whatever, maybe throw in a little racism for good measure. It seemed a pretty good discussion, that aside.

    Only scientists can talk about science? What if only politicians could vote? I’m not saying science is a democracy, I’m just saying this isn’t science, it’s a comment section…

    People who don’t believe in aliens still wouldn’t if one came down and slapped them in the face.

    People who don’t believe in God, will continue not to unless they find something in life that to them is irrefutably divine.

    No matter who has the upper hand in the end, just remember: being wrong feels a lot like being right, until you find out otherwise.

    That being said, I tend to air on the side that our ancestors were better than us, more advanced. Thousands of years from now, a new civilization may dig us up, but one thing they might not find: the internet.

    Without it, might they believe us to be less advanced than we are. The internet makes almost all parts of modern “first world” society possible. If that was a gaping hole in our history, our descendants might have a hard time figuring us out too.

    When our ancestors find Hiroshima and Nagasaki, will they wonder where the nuclear refinery was to prove that it happened? Or will they from it learn simply that man lived on earth once before, until we destroyed each other?

    I think its interesting that there are hundreds of lost cities, and I do wonder what life might have been like. If you ask me, there’s not enough information here to make anything more than an educated guess. Human nature will attempt to bridge the gaps.

  110. Mike Says:

    Well said Chloe

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