Time and again, I have been pestered with this link, as a definite proof of some nuclear explosion in ancient India. Well, as dumb as it may sound, some people actually believe this kind of mindless story, without even batting an eyelid (Not that batting an eyelid is necessary in the process of believing).
The crux of the matter is that, some people are claiming that the Indians, during the time of the Indus Valley Civilization (3000-1500 BCE), had nuclear weapons, and proof of the fact is in the radioactive skeletal remains at Mohenjo-Daro itself. Apparently, a reference to an incidence in The Mahabharata, an ancient Indian text, looks too similar to be anything else, other than a nuclear explosion. Since it is impossible to imagine such events with such vividness, it thus automatically transpires that the narration was nothing but an eyewitness account of a nuclear explosion.
Apparently some other tangible proofs of ancient nuclear India exist too. Remains at Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa are, we are given to believe, highly radioactive. Radioactivity, of such high proportion, as has been allegedly recorded at the archeological sites, can’t come into existence right out of the blue. Coupled with the fact that these two civilizations came to an abrupt end, which in it self is a mystery, the nuclear explosion, apparently, fits quite snuggly.
Lets examine, if there is any evidence to the above conclusions.
What is the source ?
Site after site, relentlessly narrate the above story, basically copy/pasting each other, but fail to give any reference to original news article. There is no mention of a press release, or something similar, by the Government of India or Pakistan or Britain. This huge event i.e. unearthing of such a radioactive skeleton, which has the potential of turning our history book right on its head, is not even mentioned in any archeological web sites like ASI, or Mohenjodaro.net or Harappa.com, or even the myriad Hindu propaganda web sites. (Some of these Hindu apologist sites do claim that the vedic India was nuclear, but, thankfully, do not point at the ruins of Indus Valley civilization as evidence. They have their own reasons, of course.)
Unless, for some unknown reason, there is a huge conspiracy to cover up, this story is absolutely bunk and that too, a sloppy one.
The Fountainhead :
The original link does not give any indication of its source. A quick googling, however, revealed the source. One such source is Rense.com.
This file shared with KeelyNet courtesy of Bryant Stavely.
Excerpt from the World Island Review, January 1992
Apparently, the story was broken to the world by World Island Review and was fist referenced by KeelyNet, in January 1992. Strangely the story is no longer available on KeelyNet. Also, the World Island Review, in all likelihood is fake.
Now let me get this straight. No legitimate archaeological site, whether Government owned or privately run, mentions anything about this incidence and the only magazine or site, which claims to be the source, does not even exist.
It has already begun to stink. But wait, there is more.
Skeletal Remains :
When excavations of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro reached the street level, they discovered skeletons scattered about the cities, many holding hands and sprawling in the streets as if some instant, horrible doom had taken place. People were just lying, unburied, in the streets of the city.
A casual reading will give the impression, that the sites at Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa were littered with skeletons and these lay unburied in such manner, that would suggest of an instant annihilation of an entire city.
Why did the bodies not decay or get eaten by wild animals? Furthermore, there is no apparent cause of a physically violent death.
Again, a casual reading will give the impression, that the “bodies” that were found, did not decay as one would normally expect to, and that the deaths were due to some physical violence, the cause of which is mysterious.
The total number of skeletons found at the main site of Mohenjo-Daro, during the initial archeological digging during 1922-1931, was, just 37. Let me quote Prof. G.F.Dales from his “The Mythical Massacre at Mohenjo-Daro“. (He was of course debunking the myth of Aryan invasion, much to the joy of Hindu apologists).
Nine years of extensive excavations at Mohenjo-daro (1922-31) – a city of three miles in circuit – yielded the total of some 37 skeletons, or parts thereof, that can be attributed with some certainty to the period of the Indus civilizations. Some of these were found in contorted positions and that suggest anything but orderly burials. Many are either disarticulated or incomplete….Where are the burned fortresses, the arrow heads, weapons, pieces of armor, the smashed chariots and bodies of the invaders and defenders? Despite the extensive excavations at the largest Harappan sites, there is not a single bit of evidence that can be brought forth as unconditional proof of an armed conquest and the destruction on the supposed scale of the Aryan Invasion.
Later excavation unearthed more skeletal remains in other Indus valley ruins like Harappa, Dholavira, Lothal etc., which numbered, more than 300. [I am not sure of the exact number.]
It is an absolute lie that bodies littered the streets of these ruins. There isn’t a shred of evidence of an instantaneous mass death, as evidenced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Some of these skeletons were actually buried at different ground level, pointing to different periods of time. In case of an instantaneous death, it is impossible to happen. There isn’t any evidence of any major war or invasion.
Frankly, I could not make any head or tail of that 2nd quote. Is it at all possible, to find any “body”, as in corpse, in any form, other than as decayed skeleton, after over a couple of thousand years ? In fact the skeletal remains, did decay, and is one reason why only some 300 odd skeletons were recovered, where as the cities are believed to have accommodated close to a million people during their heyday. [The left image below is of a Mohenjo-daro man and to the right is a female.]
Nuclear Explosion ?
Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that “Indian sacred writings” are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I will talk about “historian” Kisari Mohan Ganguli a little later. But first about this nuclear explosion. Well, if it indeed was a nuclear explosion, then it must be of a kind, that we don’t of know yet.
Here’s how Mohenjo-Daro looks today after a couple of thousand years after the alleged explosion and all the while remaining covered with sand and soil in a very dry area of the globe. [Image to the left is the great bath at Mohenjo-daro and to the right is the college buildings]
Hiroshima after nuclear explosion
The image to the left is how Hiroshima looked, after the actual explosion. Notice the difference. In case of the archeological remains of Mohenjo-Daro, the city is remarkably intact, except of course corrosion, and rampant vandalism. Hiroshima on the other hand is practically leveled to the ground. True, that more than half of Hiroshima was made of wood, nevertheless, is it possible for primitive brick structures to remain erect, the way it is found in Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa, after a nuclear blast ? The other possibility is that the bomb used, killed only biological things and left the infrastructure intact. But that’s the stuff that science fiction is made up of.
Besides, when there was no major battle, or conflict, or invasion – at least there is no archeological proof of it – why would anybody even detonate a nuclear warhead, assuming that this detonation actually happened. Absence of proof of conflict, itself, removes the likelihood of a nuclear explosion.
Could the explanation be that of an experiment gone awry ? But that is as preposterous as the idea of possession of nuclear warhead. If at all, these people were able to build a nuclear warhead, where are the archeological remains of the reactors, or the labs, or the nuclear waste ?
Nuclear Radiation ?
At one site, Soviet scholars found a skeleton which had a radioactive level 50 times greater than normal.
and…
These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on par with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Radioactivity may actually remain for over a few billions of years, depending on the presence of the amount of radioisotopes. Normal radioactive exposure is considered as 300 millirems, at sea level, but permissible limit for an adult is 5000 millirems over the normal. 50 times normal would mean 15,000 millirems, which is fairly high. However, current background nuclear radiation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is just as normal as entire Globe. This level was reached in just 60 odd years. If a blast of the nature experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was responsible for such annihilation, how is it possible for the skeleton to remain so much radioactive, even after a couple of thousand years ?
Who is Kisari Mohan Ganguli ?
Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that “Indian sacred writings” are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. “The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees,” says Ganguli.
“Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people’s hair falling out.
I can’t say, if Mr Kisari Mohan Ganguli, actually Babu Kisari Mohan Ganguli, was a historian or not, but I can tell with absolute certainty, that he did interpret The Mahabharata into English. But there is a catch. The interpretation was done between 1883 and 1896, a good 50 odd years before the first atom bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, and a good 90 odd years before the interview was included in the apparently fake news mag or site.
The above quote will give the impression that Mr Kisari Mohan Ganguli, actually gave the interview to that mag/ site. But that is impossible. Also, his references to Hiroshima and Nagasaki are also very unlikely. It is possible, he was not even alive when the bombings took place. However, it is highly unlikely that he would misquote from his own translation. In the entire Mahabharata, translated by him, there is no mention of “parasol” or anything that resembles a “parasol”.
Who is Francis Taylor ?
There is no archeologist named Francis Taylor, [Google Scholar search]accept for an amateur English gentleman, as is clear from the first link. However, he is more concerned with local archeology and there is no evidence, at least on line, that he has ever visited the archeological sites of Mohenjo-Daro or Harappa. There is, rather was, another Francis Taylor, who was the museum curator, but he died in 1957.
Misquoting The Mahabharata:
This part is not from the original link that I am reviewing. However, I come across these quotes ever so often, that I feel like saying something, particularly, since these quotes are used as evidence of some nuclear explosion during the Vedic period. From Rense.com
“A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe…An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor…it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.”
“The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.”
“After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river.”
Well, guess what. The quotes don’t appear in The Mahabharata at all. Search for your self. The Mahabharata at SacredText.com is the one translated by Mr Kisari Mohan Ganguli, the same “historian” referenced in the original story, and is the only publicly available translation of The Mahabharata.
Closest you will ever come to that quote is as below:
Endeavoured to be deceived by those wicked ones, those ascetics, with eyes red in wrath, looked at each other and uttered those words. Having said so they then proceeded to see Keshava. The slayer of Madhu, informed of what had taken place, summoned all the Vrishnis and told them of it. Possessed of great intelligence and fully acquainted with what the end of his race would be, he simply said that that which was destined would surely happen. Hrishikesa having said so, entered his mansion. The Lord of the universe did not wish to ordain otherwise. When the next day came, Samva actually brought forth an iron bolt through which all the individuals in the race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas became consumed into ashes. Indeed, for the destruction of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas, Samva brought forth, through that curse, a fierce iron bolt that looked like a gigantic messenger of death. The fact was duly reported to the king. In great distress of mind, the king (Ugrasena) caused that iron bolt to be reduced into fine powder. Men were employed, O king, to cast that powder into the sea. At the command of Ahuka, of Janarddana, of Rama, and of the high-souled Vabhru, it was, again, proclaimed throughout the city that from that day, among all the Vrishnis and the Andhakas no one should manufacture wines and intoxicating spirits of any kind, and that whoever would secretly manufacture wines and spirits should be impaled alive with all his kinsmen. Through fear of the king, and knowing that it was the command of Rama also of unimpeachable deeds, all the citizens bound themselves by a rule and abstained from manufacturing wines and spirits.
Does not even come close to the description of a nuclear explosion.
Other radioactive cities:
Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous. A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are investigating the site, where a housing development was being built. For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. The levels of radiation there have registered so high on investigators’ gauges that the Indian government has now cordoned off the region.
Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.
Ancient cities, roughly connected to the Indus valley civilization, are actually been discovered, rather unearthed in Rajasthan, by ASI. And it is true that the region actually has high level of radiation, although ASI does not mention of any archeological site to be radioactive. The reason of such radioactivity is entirely different than what is been suggested. Indian Nuclear Project/ Power plant/ Testing sites/ nuclear waste dumping sites, are all located in those areas of Rajasthan. This might help understanding.
This is a story told to Surendra Gadekar. One day in Narora a worker with a geiger counter went to take tea in the canteen. His geiger counter suddenly went crazy. On investigating he found that the radioactivity was coming from the fire used for preparing the tea. Further investigation led to the discovery that the wood being burnt had originally been used for scaffolding inside the plant, and had got contaminated and hence should have been stored as low-level waste. Instead it had been sold to a contractor, who had fortunately sold it back to the canteen: hence this sordid practice of how the establishment deals with its waste was detected.
~snip~
If the centralized bureaucracy of Maurya Kings two thousand years ago had discovered nuclear power, we in India and Pakistan would probably still be spending half our current national budget storing and caring for or repairing the damage done by atomic wastes.
I studied medicine in Calcutta. But even there I had never seen so many patients with tumors in a single day. On talking to these people in Tamlao I found that almost all the symptoms had appeared after five or more years of the reactor’s commissioning.
I have already discussed why, after thousand of year of its detonation, an atomic bomb, “about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945” can’t possibly be the reason behind any radioactivity in an area.
Lonar Crater :
Lonar crater
Lonar crater is hardly a mystery anymore. Here’s the HTML version of a PDF file, which is not downloadable, at the moment.
In 1973, based on the work done by K. Fredriksson of [Smithsonian Institution], Washington DC, D.J. Milton of US Geological Survey, California in collaboration with A. Dube and MS Balasundaram of Geological Survey of India impact origin of Lonar crater was established. They discovered breccia with shatter cones and material containing maskelynite. Maskelynite formation requires very high pressure almost 4 lakh times the average atmospheric pressure on the Earth. And this is created only during hypervelocity impact…Thus impact origin of Lonar crater was proved.
All rational persons follow a rule of thumb. If something is too good to be true, then, in all likelihood, it is not true. A little skepticism is actually a sign of a healthy mind. Unfortunately, for some people, with a giant gullible bone, anything that shines, is gold.
[Valuable inputs from xenophilia.com]
Tags: Harappa, Indus Valley Civilization, Lonar crater, Mahabharata, Mohenjo-Daro, Nuclear, Radiation, Rense.com
July 13, 2008 at 5:27 pm |
As being indian I have been always interested in knowing the history of india. Most things are amazing to hear but hard to believe as we don’t find many evidences around.
The thing which for sure I know is…Jodhpur incident…I didnt know before a couple years about the radioactive site I read in few websites. If the place they say is correct, then it was just behind my home…about 2-3 kms from my home there.
Few things which I have noticed in a last few years about cancer and birth defects is that there is some truth in it. I myself lost my first baby(in 2003) for unknown cause (after full 9 month pregnancy), just before a couple days of due date. And that’s not it, in my neighborhood there were many similar cases, and in most cases doctors didn’t have any reason for it. And for sure I know that the housing development board was digging behind for making next sectors (it’s one of the biggest housing colonies in asia), those new sectors never finished, I did not know the reason but they stopped at sector 25 which was built before year 2000.
there are other interesting things which I know as I lived in jodhpur for most of my life but I will let it go.
it’s definitely hard to comprehend when you live in the age where pythagorus and euclid are known are known as great mathematicians, regardless that now so many researchers and mathematicians know that most of what they did was available in India 100s of years before they were even born. Sulbhasutram book is one of the example in which you can see and compare the quality of proofs which pythagorus and others did after a few hundred years. I have compared a couple by myself and I find it very easy to understand that why Pythagorian proofs are so difficult to comprehend than in Sulbhasutram.
So, finally…understand what you might…it doesn’t change our present. Anyway, I like to find the truth without being partial to anything and thats how I do my research.
July 13, 2008 at 11:56 pm |
Gaurav Bhagat,
Thanks for dropping by and leaving your thoughts.
Certain areas in Rajasthan are indeed radioactive. If you visit those links given, you will know why.
Having the understanding of basic mathematics or astronomy or chemistry or perhaps even physics is one thing, but building a nuclear weapon is probably, another.
Regards
July 24, 2008 at 6:54 pm |
I found this to be a very interesting and informative article. I had been searching the internet for quite a while ever since first reading about the apparent nuclear explosion in pre-history India. I had been struggling to accept that such a history shattering event could have occurred and thankfully this article offered a scientific and logical explanation.
Incidentally as far as I’m aware a dirty bomb is capable of killing an entire city full of people whilst leaving the majority of infrastructure intact. Though this of course being technology only recently available to civilization and probably wouldn’t have killed everyone instantaneously like a conventional nuclear weapon.
Anyway, I can sleep easy again secure in the knowledge that my understanding of history is largely correct, or at least conventional :). I think I shall keep an eye on this site form now on as it has several very interesting articles
August 15, 2009 at 11:00 am |
Tyler….A dirty bomb is not capable of killing an entire city. With all due respect I’m afraid you’re a victim of media sensationalism. We few who have credible experience in the nuclear defense field refer to radiological dispersion devices (RDDs) as weapons of mass disruption. The only people likely to be killed in a RDD attack would be those killed by the blast. A caveat to this would be if fissile material were used; i.e., Plutonium 239, U235, or U233; and the first responders were stupid enough to use a wet decon setup versus a dry decon before properly identifying the isotope. However, there is modern weaponry capable of destroying large numbers of people while mostly leaving existing infrastructure intact….this is called a neutron bomb. I simply suggest you google and read about the fundamental concepts. What is allegedly described in the “The Mahabharata” is a very accurate description of a neutron bomb detonation and it’s after effects. This would have the overall effects you described in your post.
If you would like another interesting topic to research I suggest looking at the Oklo nuclear reactors discovered in Gabon, Africa in 1972. They’re estimated to be 1.7 billion years old. I would look at and carefully consider what Dr. Glen Seaborg had to say about this discovery. Dr. Seaborg is the man who discovered plutonium which in turn made Fat Man possible.
August 25, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Although very interesting, the Oklo nuclear reactors in Gabon, Africa that you speak of are a natural phenomenon. Humans weren’t around at the time of their formation. The theories and wild speculation without evidence over human knowledge of nuclear physics millenia ago is plain absurd in the face of evidence for human evolution. They almost always stem from ethnocentric or fundamentalist desires to glorify a particular civilization or to prove the antiquity of man as being the direct product of some invisible creator.
July 24, 2008 at 11:25 pm |
Tyler
Thanks for dropping by and taking your time to leave a comment.
I will have to disappoint you a little. Although I have several articles of similar debunking, right in the pipeline, but I won’t be able to update this site for at least 3 months now.
Do come back after 3 months ;).
August 4, 2008 at 2:36 am |
Well,
one can’t just jump to nuclear bomb before some certain level of sciences available…it’s like jumping 50 steps up.
If there are proofs of advanced knowledge in the past then it’s easier to comprehend the possibility of some sort of bomb available.
So far except these websites ( I am reading this stuff from last 3-4 yrs now) only thing which I remember from my own memory is that before 10-15 yrs back I read in one Hindi newspaper (when I was living in Rajasthan) that some research institute made some weird alloy with the guidelines in old texts , and it has very strange qualities. I can’t recall now that what were those qualities or the text etc. but it was quite big article which mentioned a lot going on in this area.
Later in last couple years, when I started doing research about some math facts, I found on some website quite similar stuff again…that they have developed 7-8 different alloys, some of them can’t be detected by radar etc.
If this was possible by those old texts…then there can be many other things possible. it’s just like few more steps ahead …
August 4, 2008 at 11:32 am |
Gaurav,
Appreciate your follow up.
Building a nuke does not require “some…level of sciences”. It requires a considerable level of sciences. Nuke is not a firecracker that you can build in your room. If it was, then every country, would have built one. The massive infrastructure needed, would surely have left some traces. So far no trace.
When we talk of “advanced knowledge in the past”, we mean, “advanced” either in comparison to the contemporary civilizations or in the context of the limitations of the equipments that seriously hindered the process of data gathering. We do not compare their knowledge to our times to call it “advanced”. May be we keep forgetting that, their “advanced” knowledge, compared to us, is in most cases, still primitive.
Regarding vedic mathematics, you may read this.
Regarding those alloys, I will appreciate it if you can forward me a link.
Regards
August 16, 2008 at 1:35 am |
Hi :)
Thought i would leave a reply. I read the same crazy story when browsing the web for something completely different. The story reads like some kind of new tomb raider movie. At first I took alot of the quotes at face value, but things just didn’t add up. A good for-instance would be why is it so low key? you would think if it was true the Indian government would be announcing it everywhere, how they are the smartest damn people in the whole world, bar none (I’ve run into quite a few indians that do that already).
So i took to conducting some reseach and happily i found your site with everything already pointed out. I had already found the official “Mohenjo-Daro” web sites and the peculiar abscense of any mention of radioactive skeletons. After that I pretty much figured it was some crazy person trying to make a buck and they just forgot to write a book and publish a link and buy it on amazon.com.
Good catch on searching the The Mahabharata for similar quotes, i took for granted that someone wouldn’t be dumb enough to lay the basis of a story on mis-quoting some translated ancient text, i guess i under-estimated them, or would that be over-estimating them? either way…
Now that I think about it, does’t it sound like that animated version of Atlantis? :P lol zomg flying machines! magic crystals and bombs! ahh!
September 20, 2008 at 6:44 am |
You have formed your opinion of ‘mockery’ by saying all printed books and evidence have been deleted and no govt nor private org. is researching this anymore. The problem with people is they trust their leaders. Have you not seen enough evidence lately that it is the “TRUTH” that is fought against & “FALSEHOOD” promoted?
December 10, 2008 at 11:15 pm |
You should wake up, this debunking trend is pathetic to say the least. But if you enjoy it and it makes you feel clever, then go on.
Soon, you’ll see another cycle of the human history. Very soon.
Enjoy!
December 23, 2008 at 4:55 am |
Hello everyone.
I found an article on the website of a real newspaper that mentions the theory of the nuclear destruction of Mohenjo-Daro:
http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/13920_stones.html
The article ascribes the nuclear theory to Davneport (or Davenport?) and Vincenti.
Disclaimer: I don’t know what the reliability of Pravda has been during this post-Soviet era… in Soviet times it was part of the propaganda machinery, as we know.
January 4, 2009 at 1:31 am |
There are a lot of amazing things that the ancient world has created, that is hard to belive in present times. We think of them as primative, but they were far beyond the caveman discovering the wheel.
Its unfurtunate that India’s ancient culture and sanskrit language has dimineshed as a result of Islamic conquest and British colonialism…and even the incorrect practice of Hinduism set forth by the Brahmin caste. But these stories told by our ancestory of a great nation with great power and yogic spiritualism DID exist according to them. Airplanes, weapons, and palaces have been documented in whatever test that remains. Mahabharat is not the only vedic text that exist. Majority of the Indians have been told that they are of Aryan lineage..similar to the persians. We were not invaded by the aryans..we ARE the aryans.
Maybe the Indian government is waiting to uncover ALL the facts before releasing any premature evidense. Let the archeologist, scientist, and sanskrit historians figure this out first before, jumping to conclusions. Furthermore we have to deal with curroption, politics, personal motives, and border restriction which prevent present day India to cross into its ancient borders of Pakistan to unlock more mysteries.
Cloning and all that stuff was unheard of 50years ago. Who knows, maybe they had the knowledge to handle nuclear weapons without needing nuclear reactors..or who knows..maybe the himalayan mountains was a dumping site..or its buried in the desert areas of pakistan.
Things are being uncovered with time, and slowly more pieces of the puzzle are being unraveled thru-out the world about the ancient cultures that existed. But India/Pakistan is a place where many more answers could be found. Many things (math, astrology, medicine, weaponry, transportation, faith) originated in India, but western civilization is very stuburn in acepting the fact that India’s current 3rd world economy, was once a great civilization.
January 17, 2009 at 3:48 am |
Neutron Bombs were developed to preserve Infrastructure but kill the biological agents that maintained the structure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb
An interesting development during the cold war. If any entity decided to deploy a Neutron bomb, why would they? Where could they have developed it? Although were going to need more proof to even say there could have had a Neutron Bomb or similar weapons.
January 30, 2009 at 3:08 am |
Twill….I wonder whats the real reason behind this feverish debunking spree that you are on…….englighten me please if you could. Also it would be a good idea to post your particulars in here…mainly where you are from…what do you do…what are your interests…what faith you belong to…eh ??? Could not find anything in here. So Please.
Anyways I agree with your take on Vedic Mathematics. I dont like mathematics very much maybe thats why..Grin !
January 30, 2009 at 10:08 am |
As you must have figured out that this is a very irregular blog. Right now I am tied down beyond my capacity to update this blog. I haven’t yet been able to decide about the direction this blog should take. I have posted some of the articles, which I had earlier posted on some forums. Thats all.
Eventually when I am able to update this blog on regular basis, I will post something about me. And, btw, I call myself “Twit” not “Twill”.
February 6, 2009 at 2:32 pm |
This was without a doubt one of the best articles I’ve read and extremely well put together, with a good and systematic presentation of facts.
I am sick of reading stupid fantastic stories concocted by half witted Indians hanging on to the glories of ancient India because their country lacks any today. Before anyone accuses me of being a racist skinhead, I am an Indian and am just tired because I’m surrounded by superstitious idiots and Hindu apologists who can only hang on to the shreds of India’s ancient glory. Unfortunately, their tall claims and irrational and distorted world views only serve to insult and humiliate ancient India’s glory.
Their natural sense of inferiority, stemming from a lack of any cause for national pride, requires them to hark back to the past and just like the Church of the Middle Ages their insecurity causes them to flourish their beliefs with even greater conviction.
February 7, 2009 at 3:10 am |
Love this stuff. I’ve been researching this for a (fictional) book I’m writing, a sequel to a spy novel actually. I found it because a lot of my adventure flavor is tied to Hindu mythology. Don’t really believe it, but glad there’s enough chatter about it to exploit for imaginative storytelling.
February 21, 2009 at 6:48 am |
I appreciate your clear mind. Today the internet is a huge source of information, but one has to work very hard to filter the junk out. It is amazing how many people take one persons posting as the absolute truth and keep on passing it around like a virus. They never try to verify such statements with additional and non-related sources.
You did a very good job here and I wish you well.
Not that this has anything to do with the Indian sites, but just to give you an open view for other possibilities like the Libyan and Syrian sites. There is a small window that could shed additional light on ancient possibilities. One has to understand the physics behind nuclear, to be able to understand how:
A: Nuclear ‘explosion’ could occur in nature
B: No nuclear ‘explosion’ nor waste material is needed to explain radiation detected in nature.
C: The ancient text does not refer to nuclear, but there are descriptions which does sound comparable. How could this be without our modern day technology?
There are at least two other possibilities to create nuclear reaction:
A) There is the meteor impact that will have exactly the same potential result – if all variables are in place it can cause a nuclear reaction.
B) By means of resonation – again such will require the combination of many variables. You will need the right natural oscillating crystals, sound vibration (trumpets, drums, flutes) – and most of all, you will need the right kind of element to stimulate. Now we know the ancients from India, Babylon, etc. were very fascinated with crystals (gemstones) and they were doing quite interesting things with these. We also know they were very aware of sound effects; in particular Indian.
Typical modern day devices make use of a high impact explosion with shaped charge; kind of like shooting a trillion bullets and hope they will cause at least a million secondary explosions, which will then trigger the chain reaction.
The natural possibility is resonance that will directly cause the ‘secondary’ explosion and with the other atoms already weakened by the resonance it will easily form the chain reaction. Nuclear reaction (and explosions) are not restricted to the so called nuclear minerals like Uranium, Radium, etc. A nuclear reaction could be obtained with any material under the right conditions. Calsium, silica, sulfur and sodium (Limestone) are three very interesting minerals since their structure make them very reactive to resonance! After all, each and every atom does some or other time experience a nuclei change.
March 24, 2009 at 4:36 pm |
just a note, you say they have no evidence of equipment or factories used to build nuclear weapons. personally i wouldn’t expect to find any. you don’t exactly bomb yourself do you?
on a side question about leveling a city, cause i’m not exactly educated, do biological and chemical weapons level a building? i saw a man get sprayed in the eyes by a cop once, now this may be on a different scale but the wall he was next to didn’t even get dented! wow! who knows maybe some bad people out there are able to make weapons that only effect living matter. but that can’t be possible cause it’s not mentioned in your thread, silly me.
now back to the argument of needing technical knowhow to build a bomb. i think the whole backbone of the argument your debunking is, they were given this info from an extra terrestrial entity. ET may be cleaver enough to build a bomb and willing to share basic maths with us. not sure if he’s stupid enough to tell us how to make a weapon of mass destruction.
perhaps they aught to go in and have a closer look at the radioactive areas. i’m curious to know how carbon dating works, cause if they are able to tell people what year the shroud of Jesus was painted then they must be able to tell the difference between radioactive traces from recent events of a power plant and those 3000 yr old cover up.
personally i’m up for believing you on this debunk, you are speaking with so much conviction that you would be a fool not to have personally been their and done studies and tests before making such a wonderful list of debunks. ow i’m so looking forward to you telling us who you are, when the mystery is solved we will all be wowed by you…. or have you been speaking from a similar hat to the one worn by the author of the article your debunking. *he flips his coin* hmm two sides one penny.
April 7, 2009 at 7:26 pm |
It was just a arc
Electric Craters on Planets and Moons
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050608craters.htm
April 9, 2009 at 10:19 am |
Hi Leon,
Actually I do live in India and I have visited areas around the site and come in contact with researchers who’ve been there. The idea of the ancient explosion and the explanations for it were laughable to say the least. No such evidence has been found at the site. The theory being touted as an ancient explosion is not even newsworthy enough for the Indian media and a largely illiterate population that is susceptible to such propaganda.
India’s had a glorious past, but well… that is in the past. For some who lack any pride in the present it becomes necessary to reclaim and discover some inexplicable glory in their past, like a slave who would take excessive pride in the fact that maybe his great great great great …great grand father was royalty.
April 9, 2009 at 1:32 pm |
for some perhaps your right. for others it’s a matter of history. i know few historians who would consider themselves a slave to anything other than there own passion. it is ignorance and fear of change that tells people to leave the past buried.
some people look into the past in an effort to learn from it, an effort to not repeat mistakes. They see people currently in positions of power who are to comfortable using words like “slave” instead of “average”.
in the past fables where told to educate children on moral subjects with the goal of having them grow up a little wiser without first hand experience of misdeeds.
all things change, all things develop and evolve. in a modern world you need modern warnings from the ancient past. so if what you say is true, if a people who are prone to believe propaganda are not willing to take value from a simple story that atleast online seems newsworthy enough, then perhaps your right, we don’t deserve to know the truth and the past should stay there.
April 10, 2009 at 8:49 pm |
This could have been a asteroid burst. Actually an asteroid can explode well above the earth and create a huge shockwave and heat burst. it flattens everything and the heat can kill and melt things on the surface.
April 29, 2009 at 2:43 am |
Well done and well put together. Thank you for the insight.
April 30, 2009 at 4:18 pm |
Hi Leon, I do believe you misunderstood me. I am an avid history buff, not a historian, but I love the subject and do a lot of research myself. So, the notion that the past should stay buried and forgotten is absurd. We are nothing and would be nothing if not for our past, and knowledge of your past gives you the power to some extent shape your future. My problem was not with the history, but with the misinterpretation and false glorification of history. This generally tends to happend when there is a decline in a civilization and its population resorts to falsification of history because of their inferiority. This happens all the time in India, and I’ve seen denials and attempts bury all traces of british rule in india. That’s ridiculous, cause most of our institutions and every thing that is still functional derives from the british era. These very same people who keep harking back to our culture have scarce value for heritage structures that are left to decay. There are forts even in Mumbai and around that are used more like urinals and toilets and garbage dumps by slum dwellers and citizens with no civic sense or hygiene. I guess it just shows how much we value our heritage!
June 4, 2009 at 6:56 pm |
I wonder why Robert Oppenheimer, the founder of the Nuclear bomb, seems to believe that a nuclear explosion ‘did’ took place in ancient India. Mr.Oppenheimer, who was also known to be familiar with ancient sanskrit literature, answered an inquiry from a student at RochesterUniversity thus:
Student: Was the bomb exploded at Alamogordo during the Manhattan Project the first one to be detonated?
Dr. Oppenheimer: Not the first one, but in modern times, of course yes.
Absence of a logical evidence does not mean that it did not take place. After 5000 years do you think that any evidence would be available that an atomic explosion had taken place at Hiroshima and Nagasaki (even if those cities weren’t rebuilt) other than some radioactive ashs like the one found in Jodhpur, Rajasthan.
June 9, 2009 at 9:39 am |
The lack of evidence most definitely does not constitute evidence. Such a method of reasoning and scientific investigation would give pseudo sciences like ‘intelligent design’ the same merit as paleoanthropology and the theory of evolution, which are based on sound scientific evidence. If there are gaps in a railway line it still is proof that there was a line and although we may not know the exact route we would know the direction, but the absence of any tracks does not prove that there was a railway line. It’s foolish to posit the lack of evidence for something scientific as scientific evidence, when all it is, is a fantasy.
June 14, 2009 at 7:06 pm |
Well even if there was not a nuclear explosion in harappa I am not getting the reason of particular India bashing style of writing by the blogger and in some of the replys. I do not question the reason behind the(political/religious/envious) motive but it is true that in ancient India scientific and medical technologies were very much present.
If you study science deeply and without bious (which I am sure none of you guys have done) you will unerstand that science can happen in many ways and if one generation is totally wiped out a new life evolution may happen differently and follow a diffrent science.
Just for your kind information many of the modern day drugs found their natural sources from ancient texts and tradition (you can believe me in this, I am a biologist). Astronomy also flourished in India really well and so did war techniques.
It is a very good practise to scrutinize things before arriving a conclusion but you should not be too proud – who knows like the Giant Panda or Fossil of the lockness like dino may surprise you one day.
Oh by the way, I see so many 0’s for harappa civilization dates “3000-1500″ – who invented the zeroes you are using with your brainstorming tech?? Indians ?? No, No! how could they be , they are and were a junk of……………
June 19, 2009 at 11:17 am |
ABSURD!!! i thought at first that this is an interesting article of study, but as i proceed i only find that this author is either a very pessimistic person who CANNOT accept facts and who rather, calling himself as the advocate of the week and pretending to be so, only tries to argue for the facts that he also knows are wrong and that too with very weak points. I REGRET HAVING WASTED MY PRECIOUS TIME SO FAR IN READING THIS ARTICLE AND ALSO WASTING MORE TIME ON WRITING THIS.
June 20, 2009 at 11:26 am |
Sree,
Dr Oppenheimer, was neither a historian, nor an archeologist. He liked Sanskrit and Hindu philosophy. That’s all that there is to it. For me Dr Oppenheimer’s opinion about history holds the same value as Chomsky’s opinion about nuclear physics.
Shaun DMello,
This is also relevant to Sree’s last para. I understand that absence of evidence is not necessarily the evidence of absence. But we use something called Occam’s razor – meaning, all things remaining same, we consider the simplest explanation, that has minimum variables to be explained.
Empirical evidence is all that matters. Otherwise, tooth fairy and Santa Clause would be true. So would be Russell’s teapot.
The entire argument of “Intelligent Design” is based on the logical fallacy called argument from incredulity. My argument, if you had noticed, is not based on incredulity, but careful examination of the so called “evidence” presented. I found the evidences, not only inadequate, but mostly concocted.
Asani,
I didn’t bash India, but bashed the idea of nuclear India circa 3000 BC. Please try to make that distinction.
Leena Arun,
It is strange, and a tad hypocritical, that you accuse me of being a “pessimistic person” and that I “can’t accept facts”, when you are the one, who is finding it hard to accept, that the so called “facts” are in fact lies.
Btw, I have never claimed to be the “the advocate of the week”. However, I would love to learn, which of the “facts” that I have provided, are wrong.
June 23, 2009 at 6:07 pm |
I’m relatively certain that in 100yrs the history books will recall Dr Oppenheimer; Sree i’m absolutely certain they won’t recall you.
so before you down play and down drag someone who is not currently here to defend themselves be sure your of equal stature.
using a time line to fill in the gaps is only going to work if you have enough pieces of a puzzle to see the shapes of the missing pieces. we don’t.
earth’s history is riddled with gaps of such magnitude that entire civilisations spanning hundreds of thousands of years could simply slip between the sheets.
From that timeline you are clinging to histories written within a few lifetimes and laid out by antiquated techniques as old as Darwin.
Mankind is reaching maturity and with that comes a few realisations. a child see’s themself as the centre of everything, they can do nothing else. a childlike science came up with the ideas that you are clinging to. a childlike science incapable of looking outside the box, never mind thinking there.
June 23, 2009 at 6:20 pm |
sorry Sree that was actually directed at Twit’s reply to your comment.
July 13, 2009 at 7:53 am |
Though it is indeed a possibility that ancient India and various gods with vimana (flying machines) indeed did fight battles with technology equal to or surpassing current knowledge, this should indeed be argued using accurate quotation and logical and verifiable techniques. In the same way that one bigfoot hoax can seemingly discredit legitimate encounters, likewise, shoddy scholarship can bring disrepute to a theory such as the ancient nuclear war theory that might possibly maintain some degree of truth.
August 2, 2009 at 10:39 am |
Absolutely a piece of crap!!!
The author just does not seems to come to terms with the fact that something of this sort can occer outside America or europe. According to you, Aryabhatt was joker and you can crap his theories because he was brownie? Mr. twit or whoever you are, your so called science till date has not come to term with the fact that what is this life made of leave alone debuggin what the past was. Everybody is guessing and putting a brave front, yoru white people debunked the Vedas just because they could not understand what was in it , they thought ENGLISH language was the savior.
You and peopl like you rot , Mohanjodaro or hraapa were destroyed in nuclear warfare or not, according to you , radioactive material is just found in nature and is nothing a big deal about it in Harrapa. How rediculous, people with a histroy of mere 300 years wants to dictate how the civilization was 5000 years ago. CRAP!!!
August 2, 2009 at 3:21 pm |
Hey Surat, your anti-colonial ravings and rantings are as disgusting as imperialistic or colonial era prejudices of the west. While the scientific and academic community of the west has largely overcome intellectual, colonial, and christian prejudices a section of former slaves seems to be adopting the very same narrow minded and fanatical beliefs of the church and former colonial powers. Your statements are absolutely inarticulate and unintelligible. To be completely honest they reveal a lack of knowledge about Indian culture, the vedas, modern science, and ancient history. But ignorance and arrogance do go hand in hand, so keep on raving and ranting.
October 19, 2009 at 8:57 pm |
You assume that the nuclear bomb would look the same i.e be a mushroom cloud etc. as the modern one. I am a hindu and in the Maharbharat the astra or weapon that has a similiar effect as a nuclear bomb i.e it annilates entire civilisations and leaves the earth unable to sustain life was mentioned in the Battle of kurukhshetra. It is called the brahma astra and it was forbidden to be used for obvious reasons. I believe teh effects were described in the Maharbharat. It was said that the land after the use of the brahma astra would not be able to be livable for years after and would be barren. I do not think it was used in the maharbharata i.e teh battle of kurukhshetra itself due to its power but was used at when the battle ended by a bitter man and aimed at the womb of the woman who was carrying teh last remaining desendent of the Pandavas who were teh victors in teh battle.
Forgive some of my spelling. In any event it was so long ago and whether that knowledge was available then, it probably a good thing that it is lost now if it did exist.
October 19, 2009 at 9:38 pm |
Please visit my Blog… I want your opinion.
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http://ashwatthamanphiloctetes.blogspot.com/
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According to the philosophy of the people of India prior to 700 BC, {I do not want to degarde them and call them “Hindus”. I have a strong feeling they would curse me if I do so.} everything in this universe is either one of the “Pancha Bhootas” {Five Elements} or a combination of two or more or all the Pancha Bhootas. These “Five Elements” are NOT the elements of the periodic Table. When the so called “Brahma Astra” is launched it seperates everything to it’s elementary parts. It seperates the “Pancha Bhootas”. Veda Vyasa, In the “Vana Parva”, narrates the story of Rama and Sita to console the Pandavas. He tells how Rama by using the Brahma Astra against Ravana sperated Ravana’s “Pancha Bhootas”.
The text reads…
And beholding Ravana slain by Rama of famous achievements, the celestials, with the Gandharvas and the Charanas, rejoiced exceedingly. And deprived of universal dominion by the energy of the Brahma weapon, the five elements forsook the illustrious Ravana. And were consumed by the Brahma weapon, the physical ingredients of Ravana’s body. His flesh and blood were all reduced to nothingness,–so that the ashes even could not be seen.’”
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03288.htm
I can only hope with my whole heart that the text is not an interpolation by some Brahmin.
MAY BE WE SHOULD NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF TREATING OUR NUCLEAR BOMBS WITH THE ANCIENT “TECHNOLOGY”. I don’t know how you react to my putting it like this but sometimes Indian behaviour is like that of a young teenager who is worried about the size of his penis. That’s what I observe in Indian, “We-Know-About-It-Thousands-Of-Years-Ago-You-Know” attitude. Indians suffer from an unnecessary identity crisis.
Please read Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri’s “The Holy Science”. The book costs 45/- {Indian Rupees}. The introduction itself is mind boggling.
In my blog and also here I was quoting Kisari Mohan Ganguli’s translation.
Our greatness does not lie in our having had “Astra Vidya”. Our greatness lies in our losing Astra Vidya. {If and only if we had it in the fisrt place.}
I forgot to mention… your views are great. May be you got used to this compliment.